Coldfire re-read: Black Sun Rising - chapter 15

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Time to head into the second book of Black Sun Rising with chapter 15, where our hero and villain antagonist Damien's personal annoyer stranger finally meet.


Plot summary

We start the chapter with a soul being hunted down and killed by something evil. Unaware of that, Damien, Senzei and Ciani choose this very place to stop for the night and Damien ends up offering his assistance to the mother of the killed soul (who turns out to be a teenage boy who's been in a coma for over a day). But something blocks him from seeing what is wrong, and he has to rejoin Senzei and Ciani without accomplishing anything. Dinner then brings the moment we've all waited for - Tarrant finally meets our group of intrepid travelers. While Damien tries to be sneaky about finding out more about the stranger, Ciani takes the direct approach and brings him to their table for some small-talk. Tarrant eventually offers to assist Damien with the unconscious boy, and is permitted to do so despite Damien's suspicions and jealousy. They discover that the boy's soul has been taken, and that all that is left is a mindless body. Tarrant prepares a Working to slowly kill the body, and while Damien initially protests, he lets it happen. They admit to each other that they are hunting the creature that has done this to the boy, but no more than that. Tarrant leaves the daes and heads out into the night, and Damien returns to his companions.



Quotes

• For every faeborn consultant that sold legitimate Workings, there would be at least a dozen con artists imitating the trade. And knowing that, to be sure, a dae such as Briand must buy twelve times as much protection.


• Damien looked about at the thick timber walls, the heavily plastered ceiling, and shook his head. “Do they really think this will stop a demon?”
  “If the guests believe it,” Senzei countered, “doesn’t that give it some power?”
  “Enough to matter?”


• Sometimes, hungering for a symbol, followers of the One God would carry an earth-disk. Sometimes the need for a material symbol of their faith was simply too great, and their understanding of the Church’s goals too limited . . . and that was the most acceptable option. The Church had learned to tolerate it.


• He tried to explain to her. About firearms, and how dangerous they were. About technology in general, and the power of human fear, and how sometimes when there was a physical process that a man couldn’t watch happen - because it was too small, or happened too fast, or was simply out of his sight - his fears could foul it up, and cause it to backfire. So that such a gun might well blow up in its owner’s hand at the moment he most needed it to function. Which meant that no man would carry such a thing, unless he’d had it Worked for safety. Or unless he was a total fool, who thrived on senseless risk. Or unless . . .
  Unless he was an adept.


• Slowly, calmly, in response to Damien’s fleeting touch, the stranger turned toward him. Across the length of the common room their eyes met. The man’s clear, steady gaze was more informative than any Working could have been - and much more discerning. Damien felt his own space invaded, the chill touch of a strange mind sorting out who and what he was - and then as quickly it was gone, and the space between them was impenetrable once more.


• “I don’t kill innocents,” he said coldly.
  The death-fae halted in its progress. Gerald Tarrant looked up at him.
  “There are no innocents,” he said quietly.


• And there are so many little things that are wrong, with him. Like the Earth medallion. His supposed allegiance to a Church that rejects his kind. No adept has made peace with my faith since the Prophet died.


• “We’re better off without him,” he told her. Working the fae into his words. Trying to make himself sound convincing.
  He wished he truly believed it himself.

Thoughts

• Most of the times I re-read, I jump the chapters between the prologue and this one. Finally Damien and Tarrant meet!


• Damien's initial reaction to Tarrant is quite interesting. He's jealous about almost everything, but always admits to himself that Tarrant is highly skilled at what he does and that he has the right to his attitude. It's practically bickering at first sight with those two.


• I find it intriguing that Tarrant wears the Earth symbol, when it is something that goes against the Church's symbol-free stance. I'd have expected him to be a supporter of the thought that focusing belief on a symbol distracts from the incorporeal focus on God. Or would he accept this to end up with more faith in God via an indirect route?


• Finally we get a bit more explanation on the state of technology on Erna, and how the slightest uncertainty about why something works risks it not working at all. To the early colonists, I suspect this may have been the most frustrating aspect about the planet. Mysterious monsters no-one has seen before are one thing, but finding that technology you and your ancestors have found reliable suddenly no longer works, and that the laws of physics have become uncertain...
  
• "There are no innocents." The big difference between Tarrant and Damien. Damien still believes in innocence, which he would have to do if he believes at all in salvation of souls (and a good thing he does!). Tarrant doesn't - whether that's because he's never met anyone he could believe innocent and stopped bothering to look, or whether he's just too cynical to believe it in the first place... what do you think?

As always, enjoy yourself! And we'll meet again for chapters 16-18 on Monday.

Comments

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

I find it rather interesting that when Gerald leaves, he does actually identify himself to Damien. I do believe he actually calls himself 'the hunter' in reference to the prey they're after. Kind of several hundred miles from my books, so can't check.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

He does!

But already I’ve been here too long. The spoor -” and he indicated the boy’s body, “- is already growing cold. The hunter must move on. Now, if you will permit me . . .”

Gerald is already enjoying it far too much when he can drop little teasing bits and do something to annoy/irritate Damien.

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

Gerald really is far too obnoxious for his own good ;)

Damien only seems to be that edgy around people who he feels are equal or stronger than him. He's not at all bothered by Zen, you notice, and even later, he observes Hesseth's strength when it's revealed and get's wary about it. Not quite to the same extent, but he does incline to being oddly behaved around powerful men.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

He just sees Gerald as a threat on so many levels. Attractive to women in general, attractive and interesting to Ciani specifically, an Adept, smart, handsome...

Zen is easy, he's accepted Damien's lead almost immediately. And Hesseth is rakh (and female), so that makes her a non-threat. But bring on another alpha male and Damien gets growly and cranky immediately.

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

oooh, funny reading this comment. We mentioned this same thing about Damien's alpha male issues today in the last post on the WTNF reread.

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

Yep, love that bit of profound arrogance^_^

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

I find it intriguing that Tarrant wears the Earth symbol, when it is something that goes against the Church's symbol-free stance. I'd have expected him to be a supporter of the thought that focusing belief on a symbol distracts from the incorporeal focus on God. Or would he accept this to end up with more faith in God via an indirect route?

I view it as his only tangible way of connecting to the religion he founded. Remember how Damien is repulsed when Gerald says he's serving the Church in his own way? That symbol has more meaning than it seems. And if I recall correctly, doesn't Narilka wear one later on? *can't remember*

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

If he wears it to stay in touch with the Church, it would be interesting to know where he stands in terms of symbolism, which is a pagan thing at least in Damien's time.

Narilka ends up wearing Gerald's - he gives it to her so she can show she has his protection.

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

I think Gerald's centuries in the forest and his practice of the dark fae has likely altered whatever negative thoughts he might have held about pagan symbolism. He understands the power of symbols and the way they survive the centuries by embedding themselves in the human psyche. Doesn't he show his own symbol, the Hunter's symbol which I think wasn't really described, to the boatman who's reluctant to help Damien?

Yes. Does she keep it until the wedding or was it lost in the forest?

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Good point about the symbol. Given that he developed his own, he can't be entirely opposed to the concept as long as he finds a way to make it suit his purposes. Pragmatism over principle, in this case.

(The Hunter's symbol is on the backside of the medallion he shows to Damien in this chapter.)

I can't remember whether she lost it or not, but I think she had it until the end.

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

Was the Hunter's symbol ever described?

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I have no idea - the only other symbol I can remember is the circle one that is used on Church altars. But it should come up in next week's chapters, so we'll find out then.

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

Tarrant doesn't - whether that's because he's never met anyone he could believe innocent and stopped bothering to look, or whether he's just too cynical to believe it in the first place... what do you think?

Gerald's past life as a courtier has disillusioned him to human nature. His ability as an adept to read the fae, when the fae acts like a magnified mood ring around every single person would reveal lies and insincerity faster than an eye could blink. I wonder how far his ability as an adept has affected his perception of humanity. Both Ciani and the Undying Prince express admiration for Gerald simply surviving his childhood and are awed at the fact he maintained his sanity over the ages while perfecting his control over the fae. ciani's description of what it means to be an adept and to be a part of Erna is fascinating and needs its own thread.

That said, the Patriarch's envy of Damien's moral standing and righteousness is understandable and spot-on. Damien's world is pretty much straight-forward. Either by sword or the strength of his will and faith, he overcomes his enemies. How much is Damien's belief in the innocence/inherent goodness of humanity simply a reflection of his own pure soul?

I'll stop here before I ramble on.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

It probably depends on how much insincerity and overall non-innocence someone radiates, though. He had to do at least a little more than just look at Damien to know him. So it may not be visible at first glance whether someone is an overall good person or not.

I also wonder what he made of Jenseny. She's possibly the most innocent creature possible, given her isolated upbringing.

ciani's description of what it means to be an adept and to be a part of Erna is fascinating and needs its own thread.

Start it. ;-)

How much is Damien's belief in the innocence/inherent goodness of humanity simply a reflection of his own pure soul?

He believes in the possibility of innocence because it is what he aspires to? He certainly believes in even the blackest soul being save-able. But I don't think he sees himself as pure - that would be a very arrogant assumption, and also difficult depending on Church dogma about whether souls are born innocent or not. As for objective pureness... his sorcery makes that questionable, and also his occasional acts of disobedience to his superiors, who represent his faith.

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

If emotions leave ripples in the earth fae, wonder if there's a difference between the ripples made by positive/negative emotions. There was a ST:TNG episode that discussed something similar to this.

Yeah, he seemed to alternate between being disgusted by her ignorance and fascinated by her fae-induced insight.

Oh no, you don't^_~

Ack, I'm not expressing myself well and forgot about Church dogma on the nature of souls. I meant "pure" in the Buddhist sense, achieving purity and goodness through the struggle to overcome one's baser instincts, worldly temptations, and fighting evil. Damien definitely fulfils all those. This definition of "soul purity" doesn't fit with Coldfire's pseudo-Christianity and Christianity's love of guilt as motivation and deterrent, but I see similarities between Damien and the archetype of the Warrior Monk in South East Asian culture/religion.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I can't remember whether fear ever shows up as fear, or just as strong emotion without an indication of the specific quality. Gerald distinguishes between fae-bound emotions when feeding, as do the Iezu, but whether that's conscious or unconscious is the question.

*whistles innocently*

Now you're making me envision Damien in orange robes. Like the purple ones weren't enough!

The Church seems surprisingly guilt-free to me, actually, but that's from the Catholic POV (if guilt were an Olympic discipline, the gold medal would be ours. And we'd feel bad about it while gloating.) And since they lack the guilt emphasis as the main motivation to keep people praying, they may not need the "everyone is born guilty" dogma. I can't remember, does the Patriarch con Andrys into cooperation by guilt?

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

It must be conscious to some degree. If one feeds on a certain emotion, it would be logical to be able to identify it to induce it in the prey.

Purple robes? For a cardinal? *pretty weak on Christianity-related things^^*
But he's wearing a Knight's robe with orange/gold flames anyway so orange robes aren't that far a step^_~

I think the Patriarch does by talking about Andrys' bloody family history and the lives of the people on their expedition into the Forest. I can forgive Calesta for ruthlessly using Andrys because at least he was upfront about it and made no attempt to hide what it would do to Andrys, but I imagine had the Patriarch lived and undoubtedly officiated Narilka and Andrys' wedding.... Narilka would have had a few choice words to give the Patriarch.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Something to keep an eye out for - emotions in the currents.

The purple robes Ciani made him buy some chapters ago. ;-) but yes, also for Cardinals. Which I don't think Damien ever could be, unless he goes down the Cesare Borgia road.

The Patriarch is, in his own way, as coldly calculating as Gerald. He has his goals and he'll get there, no matter the cost to others.

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

I think the difference is that purity and innocence don't necessarily mean the same thing. Damien is clearly a good person and honourable and everything, but that doesn't mean you can't occassionally swear and have nookie with a hot girl ;)

Mind you, that brings to mind the fact that this isn't specifically one of the 'old world' religions. They probably made a conglomeration of all the major religions from Erna, since they probably lost most of their history in the retelling in the first centuries After Sacrifice.

[squeakygeeky]

Finally. I love how Damien spends so much time this chapter thinking about how attractive Gerald is and being jealous. The thing with the kid has always fascinated me. Is Gerald being merciful or not? He makes a good point about the fact that the kid will never recover and it'll be best for his family if he dies quickly. On the other hand, Gerald's not exactly inclined to mercy and is busy manipulating Damien...

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Always wondered that myself. It could be his natural tendency to want to clean up messes. "Leaving this kid alive is impractical and untidy. Oh, and also it means I get to screw with that priest who annoyed me on first sight." :)

I'd forgotten they Knew each other the first time they met. I find that hilarious for some reason: irritation at first sight. XD Doesn't look like Damien got much out of it (nor did he need to; obviously just looking at Tarrant was enough), but apparently Tarrant immediately pegged the "infuriating" vibe.

[fallintosanity.livejournal.com]

This was something else my class picked up on that I didn't. I always thought that he killed the boy for the same reason he healed Senzei later: there's still enough human left in him to want to do the right thing, and killing the boy was still evil enough to balance that little act of mercy toward the parents. But several people in my class pointed out that it's very much a test for Damien, where Tarrant sees just how malleable Damien's morality is and what he can get away with. Tarrant may have an idea that he'll be working with Damien in the near future (they are hunting the same creatures, and however imprecise Divinations may be, we do know that he performs them). He would need to know exactly what Damien fears and how to inspire it - and he discovers that, in this scene.

In fact, Tarrant gets nearly everything he needs to know about Damien from this scene, from what he fears (an evil that seduces and convinces him with cunning tricks), to how far he will be pushed morally, to what he will do if pushed too far, and even to his skill with the fae and the limitations of his sorcery. Anyone think this is a coincidence?

[squeakygeeky]

Oooh, yes, that totally makes sense. Definitely not a coincidence.

[trobadora]

Oh, yes, that is a great explanation. I think that's exactly what happened - this is all for Damien's benefit, both demonstrating his power to make himself attractive (ahem, as an ally *g*), and testing Damien's limits to see how far he can go with him. He does find out everything he needs to know about Damien - definitely no coincidence!

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

I think it can be and is both - a way to probe Damien for what sort of man he is and what he'll tolerate and also a mercy on the boy's family.

My question is, was Gerald the one who initially harmed the boy? To set up the whole scene? His actions felt staged to me - and the whole "you didnt' tell me he was an addict" designed to put the mother on the defensive. He did know the boy "died" in terror. That's pretty much his mark.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Well, the initial harm came from the mind-eating... things. But it's the kind of setup Gerald would easily use to find out more about a situation and to drive home some points.

I don't think he really saw the boy as an actual person at any point, just as a tool for him to find out more about Damien. If the boy hadn't been there, he'd have found another way to get a closer look at that priest. The killing is one of those moments when he goes so absolutely, horribly pragmatic and practical. Dead weight? Get rid of it before other people will waste resources on it for sentimental reasons.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Damien always seems a bit too focused on Gerald's looks. *g* What I enjoy about the chapter is how he keeps being irritated by things, but then grudgingly admits that yes, it's also kind of admirable to see someone so good at what he does.

Gerald can't be merciful, it's against his contract with evil. So he's got an ulterior motive here, and I strongly suspect it's the chance to annoy that priest and see how much he can get away with.

[juonetar.livejournal.com]

How much information Tarrant gathered from Damien at that first Knowing? Just the basics?

And after their chat Ciani introduces Tarrant "originally from Aramanth" - is that only a near-anagram for Merentha, or is that a real place name? The name of the plants, amaranths, stems fron Greek aramantos meaning never-fading (undying?). Is this author's wink to a reader, or Tarrant giving a hint to Damien? Tarrant certainly seems to enjoy the following discussion with him, and all those suggesting/evading manoeuvres.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I believe it's a real place. Friedman used to have a map somebody had drawn for her on her Coldfire site, and I'm pretty sure I remember spotting Aramanth as an actual city.

The similarity to Merentha is probably Tarrant being clever, though. :)

[trobadora]

I think he must have gathered quite a bit - he may have underestimated how much Damien would figure out about him, but ne never misjudged how far he could go with him.

As for Amaranth - who knows, Gerald might actually be from Amaranth originally. Just, you know, a thousand years ago. I could see him telling the truth in the knowledge no one will understand, and smiling to himself about it.

(Merentha was the seat of his neocounty, but we don't know when he was awarded it, and I don't think there's anything saying he's from that city originally, is there?)

[juonetar.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we don't know such details about Tarrant's background. I wonder if there's any pieces of information in all those Andrys chapters in CoS. I tend to fast-forward them - perhaps I have missed something interesting.

[trobadora]

I tend to fast-forward them

LOL, you and practically everyone else! We're probably all discover quite a few things we missed or forgot in those chapters when we get there.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Andrys chapters? What Andrys chapters? :-)