Coldfire re-read: Black Sun Rising - chapter 21

[trobadora]

On Thursday, we were talking about the beer. In this chapter, our heroes are. :D

Of course, there's also blood on the menu.

Literally.

Plot Summary

Our intrepid heroes cross over to Morgot. On the ship, Damien and Tarrant get a small glimpse of the tidal fae. In Morgot, they find an inn with ... interesting things on the menu. Tarrant goes out to take a look at the fae, and detects the sign of an unknown watcher. Damien joins him, the others are lured out by sorcery - and their enemies attack. Tarrant and Damien fight, our female stranger interferes - she's using the tidal fae. When the creatures flee, Damien finds Tarrant, under the influence of the female, has attacked Ciani. He tries to attack Tarrant with the Fire, but Tarrant knocks him out with the earth fae.

Quotes

• Tarrant's ties to the Hunter should have been enough to make Ciani keep her distance - except that she was Ciani, and even before the accident she had loved knowl­edge for its own sake, without the "taint" of moral judg­ment. With a sinking feeling Damien realized just how drawn she would be to the Hunter, and to the mystery that he represented. It would mean little to her that he tortured human women as a pastime, save as one more fact for her to devour. For the first time it occurred to him just what a loremaster's neutrality meant, and it made his stomach turn. He had never considered it in quite that way before.


• Faeborn creatures usually avoided crossing bodies of water for that reason; shallow waters might rob them of their special powers, and deep enough waters might cost them their life.
  He wondered if the creature called the Hunter could survive such a crossing. Was that why he sent out his minions, his constructs, but never left the Forest himself? Or was his form simply so unhuman that the men who plied the straits for a living would respond poorly to his overtures - unlike their response to the elegant, courte­ous Gerald Tarrant?


• "I think you forget the God I serve," he told Tarrant. "Those of my calling neither fear death, nor doubt their own immortality."
  For a brief moment, there was something in the other man's expression that was strangely human. Strangely vulnerable. And then the moment was gone and the cold, mocking mask was back in place. "Touché," he mut­tered, with a slight bow. "I should know better than to fence rhetoric with your kind. My apologies."


• "Not bad, eh? Best beer in the eastlands, to bet. It's out of Jahanna."
  "Jahanna?"
  "The Forest," Senzei explained. He and Ciani had come up to join them at the bow, to watch the sea of scarlet stars part before their hull.
  "The Forest makes beer?"
  The captain grinned. "Can you think of something that place'd need more, besides a good drink?"


• The efficacy of sacrifice, the Prophet had written, is in direct proportion to the value of that which is destroyed.


• "Is there anything you haven't prearranged?” Damien said sharply.
  He seemed amused. "You mean, do I ever leave any­thing to chance?" He smiled. "Not by choice, priest."


• Tarrant's voice was hoarse. "I vowed once that I would never hurt this woman. But when that woman's Working hit, with the full force of the tidal fae behind it ... it awakened a hunger too intense. I feed on vulnerability, priest - and she was too close. Too helpless. I lost control."
  "So much for your precious vow," Damien growled.
  Something flickered in those lightless eyes that was not rage or hatred. Pain? "The true cost of that is beyond your comprehension," he whispered.

Thoughts

• Damien can't quite yet conceive of something as evil as the Hunter nonetheless having a perfectly pleasant human appearance. Another one of those lines that will be blurred very thoroughly, very soon. Human and inhuman, good and evil - there's no such thing as a clear line. This Damien, despite the tall talk he gave the Patriarch, still has a lot to learn about that.


• Damien is so very sure of his faith, and that he needn't fear death. And he hits Gerald right where it hurts, even though he doesn't fully understand it yet: Gerald, after all, no matter his own faith, was condemned to hell by that very faith, for being who and what he is. How do you think Damien would have responded, in Gerald's place?


• We get a bit more info about how the Terran colonists came to Erna - in coldsleep, on a ship that apparently had no faster-than-light drive -, and about the First Sacrifice. Not to mention the exposition about the tidal fae. Tiny snippets of info, woven into the narrative - it's very skillfully done, isn't it? You only really notice how important they are in retrospect - here, they're just part of the scenery.


• Damien also realises, perhaps for the first time, just how much Tarrant likes to control everything around him - perhaps not coincidentally in the same chapter where Tarrant thoroughly loses control for the first time too, breaking his word, risking his very soul in the process.


• Tarrant mentions that "the Forest holds its own in trade". What do you think they trade - besides beer, that is? :D

Have fun with the beer and the blood - on Thursday, we'll be continuing with chapters 22 and 23.

Comments

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

Damien is probably so used to facing the worst and wildest demons conjured by the fae that anything to surpass them would have to be even more horrific. But then, as Tarrant points out, a man built and strong as Damien is won't understand the simple fear of the weak. Damien works under a lot of misconceptions about the nature of fear and the fearful, all because of his own experience.

[trobadora]

Good point about the misconceptions! Good for Damien that Tarrant is a good teacher when it comes to the nature of fear. ;-)

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

Although not that brilliant, given the fact it takes him multiple attempts to get Damien scared enough to chow down on ;) It does make you wonder just what Damien has seen and dealt with to be so fearless. Faith is one thing, but he never even remotely seems fazed.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Good point. Really he's fearless beyond the ability to explain it away with simple rationales like "He wasn't bullied as a child" or "God won't let the mean demons get him." That's the kind of equanimity that comes from either having survived some really horrible things, or the sort of faith that goes along with sainthood.

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

Saint Damien has quite a ring to it ;)

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Just think of his legend. After many heroic deeds in the face of terrible danger, he saves the Prophet of the Law from certain damnation by going into Hell and dragging him out.

I can just see the believers flocking to that. ;-)

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Damien is so very sure of his faith, and that he needn't fear death. And he hits Gerald right where it hurts, even though he doesn't fully understand it yet: Gerald, after all, no matter his own faith, was condemned to hell by that very faith, for being who and what he is. How do you think Damien would have responded, in Gerald's place?

The thing about Tarrant and faith, I think, is that it was never about faith in the religion he was (re)crafting; it was faith in himself, in being able to build something that would work in the natural laws of the planet to create the result he desired. Doesn't someone, at some point, explain that his theory was, "If there is a god, then focus people's attention on that; if there isn't, then create one." So it was pure practicality, really, on his part. And his damnation wasn't by his own hand, but--he understood--the hands of those who believed in what he'd designed.

Damien, on the other hand, even while he understands the Prophet's work, also believes. I think, if he'd found himself in Tarrant's place, he might have had it in him to trust that whatever happened would be the right outcome--that the God his One Church reveres would be merciful and just.

I have to say, it makes me wish for a follow-up on the moment in WTNF when Damien's prayer is answered.

I assume the Forest does a good trade in lumber--probably including some kinds of wood that no one else has ever seen--and livestock. Remember Tarrant's horse-breeding program. Aside from that? One does wonder where the blood on that menu came from...

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Tarrant believes in his own faith, but not in the same way as his followers. It all works on several layers; everybody wants the same final result, but depending on how involved they are and how much background knowledge they have, they go about it in different ways. The simplified prayer and mass version for the plebs, the more sophisticated variations for those like Damien, who again has a very different take on things than the Patriarch, who is a lot more intellectual about it all. And Tarrant, of course, who may never have believed in God to begin with, just in the opportunity it presents. Small wonder that finding out about God's existence came as something of a shock.

[trobadora]

He himself explains his theory in WTNF, yes. You've got a point there. Nonetheless, Tarrant had the rug pulled out from under him by the religion he founded himself; I was just wondering how Damien might deal with such a situation.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

:D He did, didn't he? Definitely out-clevered himself, there.

I didn't mean to make it into a debate about the semantics of faith, though. What I meant to say was that Damien seems more able to believe in something beyond the logistics and philosophy of the Church, while I think Gerald gets caught up in the logic of it.

Gerald says a couple of contradictory things about his pact, doesn't he? At one point, he explains that as an adept, he was staring down a quick trip to Hell thanks to the actions of other Church leaders. Later, he says it's because he couldn't bear to not see what would come of his work. Either way, it's a matter of time: he thought he had more, till the heart defect caught up to him. Either way, I'm not sure that's a trap that would have caught Damien. If he'd ended up like Tarrant did, he might've trusted that God would transcend beyond belief and the fae and that things would happen as they were meant to.

alighiera has a good point further down in the comments, though, that Damien's in a somewhat similar position in CoS when he resigns. I wonder how much of that was running away and how much was self-sacrifice. His priesthood is so much a part of his identity, but he's also self-confessedly relieved that he doesn't have to worry about it any more (though whether he's saying that to make himself feel better...).

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Human and inhuman, good and evil - there's no such thing as a clear line.

At this point Damien still likes to have his lines clear and everything sorted properly into good and evil. I don't think he really had reason so far to question it. If he mostly went up against demons, the sides would be drawn very clearly. And I don't think he spent much time involved in any kind of political/diplomatical maneuvering to be a bit more discerning about subtleties. It's interesting to compare this Damien to the Damien we get in CoS.

How do you think Damien would have responded, in Gerald's place?

For the initial choice? He never puts his own life before that of others, so he'd never have been able to make the necessary sacrifice. Gerald is hanging on to life with all his might, while Damien accepts that in his line of work, the end may come sooner rather than later. As long as he can achieve something by dying, he'd be quite willing to, I think.

You only really notice how important they are in retrospect - here, they're just part of the scenery.

It's the sort of book that gains substance with every re-reading. So many little things to put into perspective. The tidal fae? It's going to matter later on, but the whole bit about humans not being able to use it is just theory until Jenseny comes along.

What do you think they trade - besides beer, that is? :D

Weisswurst and pretzels, of course. ;-)

If the beer is any indication, then other agricultural products wouldn't surprise me. Anything that lets Gerald tinker happily with his biological experiments. Those pigs they breed with extra ribs so they work better for spareribs? I'm sure he'd come up with similar ideas that let him experiment, and then make a profit to easily finance whatever other experiments he wants to try. Or to buy the next girl and save time, of course.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I'd completely forgotten that there was a clear description here of a Rakh Working the tidal fae. More surprising, though, is that apparently both Damien and Tarrant forget it until much later.

Or maybe it just simmers around in Gerald's big brain until he feels sure that's what it was.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

He's got nine centuries' worth of knowledge to sift through, it sometimes takes him a bit longer to puzzle something out in detail.

I suspect that for both of them it's a case of "not possible, so must be something else, don't bother with it". And Gerald did say that trying to work the Tidal fae almost killed him. With his arrogance, he'd assume that if he couldn't do it, nobody can.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

That's right, he did say something of the sort, didn't he? He was fairly gobsmacked (well, for Tarrant, anyway) when he figured it out.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I always thought it's one of the reasons Jenseny annoys him. She can do something he can't, and do it easily and without actually knowing how tricky it is supposed to be. It makes him look incompetent.

[trobadora]

More surprising, though, is that apparently both Damien and Tarrant forget it until much later.

Well, they both immediately have more important things to worry about - Tarrant with putting his soul at risk through what he's done to Ciani, and Damien needing to save Ciani. But I'm going to have to pay more attention to the next time it comes up ...

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Waitaminnit! He notices here!

"But when that woman's Working hit, with the full force of the tidal fae behind it..."

So in WTNF, when he badgers Hesseth into revealing that the Rakh can work the tidal fae...had he been sitting on that little nugget of information for a year or more?

[trobadora]

Hmmm. Hesseth reveals it herself toward the end of BSR, though Gerald's not present then. And there's a point where Damien tells him, in WTNF, isn't there? Gah. I'm getting the chronology mixed up, I'm sure.

[fallintosanity.livejournal.com]

Notice the phrasing, though - he's assuming she did a normal human Working with normal earth-fae, and that either she inadvertently tapped the tidal fae, or the tidal fae happened to flare up at the same time she did her working. Or possibly he's still reeling from both Hesseth's Working and Ciani's memories, and doesn't realize (or remember later) what he's saying and what he really saw. Humans are very good at ignoring things that should be impossible - we know Tarrant believes that humans cannot Work the tidal fae, and IIRC, neither Tarrant nor Damien at this point know that this woman is rakh. So, Tarrant may well have told himself afterward that it was an earth-fae Working, and that the tidal fae flared at the same time, and proceeded to forget all about it until much later.

[trobadora]

Damien would never have gone for trying to prolong his life the way Gerald did. But in many ways, his faith is very simple and clear. I do wonder how he'd react if he had the rug pulled out from under him the way Gerald had ...

Weisswurst and pretzels, of course. ;-)

AAAARGH.

Not that I have anything against Weisswurst or pretzels, you understand - but you remember that ... unfortunate ... image from last week's post? YOU PUT IT RIGHT BACK INTO MY BRAIN. *screams*

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Come to think of it, Damien is in a similar situation in CoS, when he resigns. The Church framework is too stifling, and he knows that if he goes on with what he knows he must do, he'll violate too many rules for it to stay acceptable. And he went on and did it anyway because he was convinced it was the right thing to do. Only he didn't sacrifice loved ones along the way, just himself.

Mind, having the Prophet along for spiritual guidance of some sort may have influenced him a little.

YOU PUT IT RIGHT BACK INTO MY BRAIN. *screams*

Oh come on, prettyarbitrary drew it, you really can't blame me for it anymore! (And besides, you know Gerald has the right ass for Lederhosen to look good. ;-)

[trobadora]

Mind, having the Prophet along for spiritual guidance of some sort may have influenced him a little.

That's ... an excellent way of putting it. :D

you really can't blame me for it anymore!

WATCH ME. *shudders*

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I drew it because you put it in my head, too. I just happened to have the means to purge it. Or inflict my pain on everybody else, anyway.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

You all make it sound like it was a bad thing...

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Heh heh heh.

[squeakygeeky]

Actually the point isn't that there it literally blood on the menu, it's that blood is listed on the menu. Probably my favorite line in the whole book. I love what that implies about the settlement's relationship with Erna's non-human population...

[trobadora]

it's that blood is listed on the menu

That's what I meant! Sorry if the phrasing is unclear.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I love what that implies about the settlement's relationship with Erna's non-human population...

"Sure, they occasionally kidnap a virgin. But they're good customers, and amazing tippers."

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Actually reading this chapter again *cough* (okay, so I was previously working off my memory of the more standout scenes), I'm reminded that this is when Tarrant admits to having experimented with tidal fae in his younger days. Also, he's obviously operating under the assumption that Damien figured out that Tarrant = Hunter (definitely points to Damien for that earlier bluff, and also the zinger he laid on Tarrant with that "you forget the God I serve" comeback). I wonder if Tarrant goes through the entire series under the impression that Damien saw through his little charade at the beginning. The thought amuses me for some reason.

Apparently water is the only thing on Erna that doesn't have fae associated with it. I have to wonder where the stuff comes from. We have earth fae and dark fae, tidal fae and solar fae. If it's confined to a single planet, how do we get fae that relates to other celestial bodies? Perhaps it's the interaction of their energies with Erna's atmosphere or something...

The description of entering Morgot is breathtaking. It reminds me of the first time I went to New York City at night. Coming in across one of the bridges, it's like that: as if you're floating in a sea of stars that're loose in the darkness. It must make quite an impression on a man who keenly feels the (lack of) impact of humans on Erna.

...And there's Tarrant, in place to introduce him to it. They snarl at each other the first time they meet, but the fascination seems to start up almost as quickly.

Also, has anybody else caught Damien's apparent sixth sense? He can't See the fae without a Working, but he often seems to pick up on things that are off, or peoples' moods, or imminent threats. I wonder whether this is a trait of an experienced sorceror, or if everybody on Erna can do it if they pay attention, or if it's just a completely human sense of nuance.

Finally, this chapter always leaves me feeling faintly cheated. I kind of wanted to see how much good old-fashioned mayhem Damien and Tarrant could dole out together. :)

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I wonder if Tarrant goes through the entire series under the impression that Damien saw through his little charade at the beginning.

I don't think it ever comes up again. And it must be quite impressive to Tarrant that Damien (presumably) knows he's the Hunter, and doesn't seem to really care. I can't remember exactly how much of this little misconception is revealed when Damien has his big surprise about Hunter=Tarrant=Prophet.

He can't See the fae without a Working, but he often seems to pick up on things that are off, or peoples' moods, or imminent threats.

That might simply be a result of his lifestyle. When you're constantly on guard because all kinds of beasties might sneak up on you, you pay a lot of attention to your surroundings.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

:) I peeked (okay, so my book kinda tends to fall open to that section), and it doesn't. Damien flips out, of course, but it's over the fact that the Hunter is the Neocount of Merentha (aka the Prophet), not that he also happens to be Gerald Tarrant. So nothing happens to disabuse Gerald of the notion.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Another little discussion they can eventually have. Do you think it would have changed Gerald's behaviour if he hadn't thought Damien knew from the beginning?

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I think he would have respected him less in the morning? :D

I do think that he gave Damien more respect because of it, which probably kept them from throttling each other right off the bat. In the end, I think they probably would've ended up at the same place--it's not like they had a choice about hanging out together--but getting there could've been more painful.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

It would have been interesting to see the increased sarcasm and taunting that probably would have resulted from Damien obviously not knowing.

Did you notice that even in their second meeting, they almost immediately talk shop, and Damien already ends up following Gerald around to check up on him?

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

:D Oh yeah. Setting up what will be a long-standing pattern. I can't even express how funny it is that apparently for both of them, a chance to talk religion or sorcery trumps hate-hate-hate, just about every time. Damien might not have Tarrant's or Ciani's insatiable curiosity about everything, but he's quite the information sponge about his favorite subjects.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Well, Gerald has been stuck with evil minions for centuries, so I doubt he had much chance to talk religion. And not much about sorcery theory eiher, I suspect, because it's never good to let your underlings see that what you're doing are experiments whose outcome you might not be all that sure about.

Happening upon a priest as a traveling companion must have seemed great, with the added bonus of said priest being of the non-sorcery-condemning kind. Plus Damien being a smart cookie. No wonder Gerald took him home almost immediately. ;-)

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Don't forget he's also an excellent chew toy! Rugged and satisfyingly loud.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Ok, this time it's you who caused the mental image, not me!

[trobadora]

Also, he's obviously operating under the assumption that Damien figured out that Tarrant = Hunter

Really? I didn't get that impression - maybe I wasn't reading carefully enough ... Could you explain what led you to that conclusion?

I kind of wanted to see how much good old-fashioned mayhem Damien and Tarrant could dole out together. :)

You and me both. *g*

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Well, from ch. 19:
He turned away as if to leave - and then looked back at Damien. “We don’t leave until dusk, of course. I prefer not to travel in sunlight. But you guessed that, didn’t you? You guessed so very much.” He smiled, and bowed his head ever so slightly. “Until tomorrow, Reverend Vryce.”

While there's a certain amount of mockery to that (as usual), Tarrant also gives him that little head-bow that we'll come to see he bestows on those who've impressed him mildly.

Then there's the whole exchange over the tidal fae in Ch. 21:
Damien looked up at him. “You’ve tried,” he said quietly.

“In my youth,” he agreed. “I tried everything. That particular experiment nearly killed me.” The pale eyes sparkled with some secret amusement. “Does it comfort you, to imagine I could die?”

This strikes me as notable, because remember, Tarrant looks no older than 29. So what's the implication? One could conclude that he started experimenting with the fae when he was still literally a kid--and we don't know whether that would be unusual for adepts. But the line after that about "does it comfort you to imagine I could die?" He's obviously decided Damien knows he's not human (a fact which Damien himself is not yet sure of). In fact, considering Damien's prowess at killing your average faeborn monstrosity, he's apparently concluded that Damien thinks he's something pretty badass.

Then they segue into the conversation about mortality, where Tarrant's question about being tempted by immortality doesn't seem all that subtle in its implications about him, especially given his previous statement, and Damien scores a verbal hit that's accidentally so apropos that it can't do anything to disabuse Tarrant of his impressions.

“The Forest pays its servants well,” he said shortly. “Which is why such men are willing to serve us at inconvenient hours.” Then he looked up at Damien; his pale eyes sparkled. “One of the reasons.”

Finally, there's this. Which might just be Tarrant being generally amused at Damien's expense, but it does seem like he assumes Damien is in on the joke.

All of which, admittedly, doesn't necessarily add up to Tarrant thinking Damien knows he's the Hunter, but it definitely adds up to something. What? Just that he works for the Forest? That he's a man who made a pact with something? It's the line "Does it comfort you to imagine I could die?" that really sells me on the Hunter theory. It's the kind of thing you'd say to someone who you know has a real hate-on for you--more than just faeborn, and I'm not sure whether Gerald Tarrant as a person, at this point, has incurred Damien's hatred sufficiently.

[trobadora]

It's the line "Does it comfort you to imagine I could die?" that really sells me on the Hunter theory.

Hmmm. You're right that there's something there - it's the only part; everything else is consistent with Damien simply working out that he's a servant of the Forest -, but I dont quite buy the Hunter theory. You don't have to know very much about Damien to know that his reaction would have been much stronger. And remember, Gerald Worked a Knowing when they first met, so he did know something about Damien. I'm going to have to reread this and think about it some more ...

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Let me know what you come up with! It's been bugging me too.