Coldfire re-read: Black Sun Rising - chapter 41

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Tonight it's time for angst, for some action, and for our hero to rescue his girl eternal nemesis and personal annoyance.


Plot summary
Damien, Ciani, Hesseth and their Lost guide set out into the caves in the hope that a) they'll find a way into the citadel and b) Damien will find a way to justify rescuing Tarrant. Which is eventually found, so they continue their journey and eventually get to what they've been looking for - Tarrant, stuck in highly symbolical fire. Hesseth and Ciani do their part in getting him free, while Damien does the heavy lifting. They escape from the clutches of their evil enemies, and in true cliffhanger form, finish off wondering whether Tarrant is still going to be Tarrant when/if he wakes up .



Quotes

• But worst of all were those rare instants when he was honest enough to admit that he was grateful to Tarrant for making that move without asking him. Without giving him the chance to stop it. That gratitude was like a cancer on his soul, a growing uncleanliness which he lacked the knowledge - or perhaps the will - to eradicate.


• Tell me this, if you can . . . if he were in trouble - captured, let’s say, and in pain, incapable of helping himself - does he think that I would come after him?” When she hesitated, he added, “Or that I would let our party come to help him? Or does he think I would leave him to die - perhaps even be grateful to our enemy for arranging it?”


• “Now, let’s just hope that when we get that bastard back . . .”
  He released Ciani and lifted his springbolt. And tested the draw, to make sure it was tightly cocked.
  “Let’s just say he’d better earn his keep,” he warned her.


• Soon she’ll remember all of it. All of it! Her capture, her captivity, whatever torture she endured at the hands of these creatures . . . it’ll all return to her in an instant. A single blow. What will that be like? So much terror pouring back into her, all those years of suffering relived in an instant . . . this is nothing, compared to it. Her hardest moment will be the one in which we restore her to what she was.


• He felt a cold buzz course up his back, as though Tarrant’s sword was somehow upset by the concept of warmth. Tough shit, he thought to it.


• It seemed to him that for a mo¬ment he understood what that meant, what it felt like for a being that powerful to be rendered impotent - utterly neutralized - by so simple a means. And the pain of it, the utter humiliation of it, was so intense that he nearly staggered back, as though struck. For a man of the Hunter’s arrogance to be trapped thus . . . he wondered if that fierce pride could survive such an experience. If the identity he knew as Gerald Tarrant could emerge from it unscathed - or even recognizable.

Thoughts

• Tarrant is convinced that Damien won't bother with rescuing him. But when you think of it, why not? He knows that Damien needs him to help Ciani. Does he think Damien won't be rational enough to consider that? Damien already allowed the mind channel and lets him feed, so is the gap to mounting a rescue attempt really such a big one?


• When I see Ciani at her first glimpse of her memories, it makes me wonder whether her drive to remember is the loss of memory, or of her adeptitude. She seems to be doing extremely well in rebuilding her knowledge at a rapid pace, and it often sounds that what she really hungers for is her adeptitude. Would she take the latter without the former, if she could?


• Damien is really starting to form a relationship with Tarrant's sword at this point. He's even thinking of it as sentient. And talking to it!


• Am I the only one who wondered why, before sticking him into the fire, they bothered to undress Tarrant and then neatly fold his clothes to leave them in a tidy pile?


• How come Damien is so convinced Tarrant is still alive even when they find him? Their dreams of the fire could just as well have been an echo - he hasn't got any reason at this point to know what Tarrant can recover from when it comes to burning. Where does this conviction come from?


• The description of Tarrant being practically barbecued has never really gotten to me. Other instances throughout the books make me mentally flinch when reading, even when it's just a little cut or a prick. But here it's like it's simply too much detail to keep it scary. How about you?

On Monday it's chapters 42 and 43 - evil Bond-villain-type plans must be hatched, and our heroes have some healing and plotting to do as well.

Comments

[linaerys.livejournal.com]

Damien is really starting to form a relationship with Tarrant's sword at this point.

DIRTY! *g*

I found Tarrant being BBQed pretty grossifying. The flesh coming off of the scaffold really stuck with me.

Am I the only one who wondered why they bothered to undress Tarrant and then neatly fold his clothes to leave them in a tidy pile?

Hee! I never thought of that. Well, if they hadn't would he have been wandering around naked for the rest of the book, or would he have been able to magically create clothes?

...I am feeling more silly than thinky today.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

It is quite ironic that Damien has ended up safeguarding Gerald's phallic symbol.

Well, if they hadn't would he have been wandering around naked for the rest of the book, or would he have been able to magically create clothes?

Damn, they should have stuck him in with clothes on! What a wasted opportunity.

The clothes question is something that puzzles me in every story that has shapechanging. Gerald seems to come out of his shapechanges dressed (more's the pity), so he's no exception to it. I want to cheer every time shapechangers worry about taking clothes along.

[eveningfire.livejournal.com]

The clothes question is something that puzzles me in every story that has shapechanging.

I think having him appear with clothes after shapeshifting can be justified in the Coldfire universe better than in other fiction. He's not transforming his body into his other shape like a werewolf would; he has to consciously dissolve it and create another form for it using the fae. So if he can dissolve his flesh there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to dissolve his clothes too. (Remember that he can even dissolve other people's bodies with coldfire, and he also burned away the cloth the rahk put over his eyes).

But yes, that does leave the question of why he couldn't just create clothes for himself. Maybe he can, but in the tunnels the fae was weak and he wasn't exactly in top shape either when he woke -- so Ciani was smart to rescue some ready-made clothes for him.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Good point, he has control over matter in that way. And since he manages to patch his clothes with the fae, it stands to reason he has also figured out how to solve bigger problems, like dissolving them and integrating them into the alternate shape.

For creating clothes, he'd certainly need more than just the fae though, wouldn't he?

[eveningfire.livejournal.com]

For creating clothes, he'd certainly need more than just the fae though, wouldn't he?

I think creating clothes out of thin air is just as plausible as creating feathers. Which is to say, not very. But who am I to say what natural laws govern matter on Erna? Physicists have discovered some pretty weird things lately even on Earth.

[alice_montrose]

The way I figure it, when he shapeshifts the clothes and his sword (why did no one mention it?) transfigurate along with the rest of him. So, upon transforming back into human shape, he would be dressed the same way and carry the same implements that he did before shapeshifting.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

We were too busy wondering what Damien and the sword are up to. ;-)

The sword is actually the greater puzzle. Clothes are just clothes, but that sword is special. Unless, of course, the tamed fae in it is what feeds the change...

[eveningfire.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wondered about the clothes! There really is no reason why they shouldn't have just put him dressed into the fire. Unless he was carrying a change of clothes, but then he would have left it with the horses. Even more strangely, if I remember correctly his cloak disappeared somewhere in the process, so that he's wearing just pants and a shirt after this chapter. I guess Ciani might have left it, although I can't imagine why -- I'm sure she could have managed to carry away more than just a shirt and pants.

It does remind me a little of the Prince of Persia game where the hero's clothing keeps getting ripped and torn throughout the action until he's barely wearing anything by the end.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I just went through it again with an eye on the clothes factor. *g* They take the cloak to wrap him up in, so presumably that makes it along. Ciani has the rest, and at one point they use a tunic to cover a rough patch of ground. Damien then hangs on to that one. I wonder whether he'll be blamed for the state of it afterwards?

I couldn't blame Ciani if she "lost" his clothes somewhere along the way, though. ;-)

[eveningfire.livejournal.com]

You're right, I remember now. I should buy an extra copy of the books to keep at work. :-)

Too bad though, it would have been much nicer if he was naked when Damien carried him.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Maybe not in the barbecued state. *g* Still, they get that nice scene afterwards and having Gerald naked for that could have been such a great touch.

[alice_montrose]

Damien doesn't like Gerald very much, and initially did not agree with him coming along... so maybe it's just some twisted logic that tells him Damien would rather let him burn?

As for Damien's relationship with the sword, I do not really want to think about all the implications.

Am I the only one who wondered why, before sticking him into the fire, they bothered to undress Tarrant and then neatly fold his clothes to leave them in a tidy pile?

Because Calesta is a sick bastard who wanted to see Gerald naked? In fact, is there anyone who does NOT want to see Gerald naked? *looks around*

The description... it repulsed me, and at the same time endeared me to Friedman's writing even more. Anyone who can write that sort of thing is a book meant for general consumption has my respect.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

so maybe it's just some twisted logic that tells him Damien would rather let him burn?

Only if he thinks himself more important in Damien's mind than Ciani. Which, given who this is, he probably does.

In fact, is there anyone who does NOT want to see Gerald naked? *looks around*

Well, at this point Damien is still careful about hanging on to the recovered clothes. *g*

To me the descriptions were just a little too graphic to really have an impact. It's a bit hard to explain - the cut Ciani gives herself in the next chapter to make her finger bleed really makes me flinch every time, but here it's just a matter of thinking "I wonder if they marinaded him before tossing him on the grill".

[eveningfire.livejournal.com]

"I wonder if they marinaded him before tossing him on the grill".

Ha ha! That's great!

Yeah, I wasn't particularly horrified at Gerald's pain either. I felt sorry for him, but it didn't make me feel like I was being burned as I read the chapter. I think it's just hard to empathize with an undead being who can heal his body as fast as fire can burn it. It doesn't make me go, "gee, that could be happening to me."

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I think it's just hard to empathize with an undead being who can heal his body as fast as fire can burn it. It doesn't make me go, "gee, that could be happening to me."

That's exactly it!

[lunabee34.livejournal.com]

When I see Ciani at her first glimpse of her memories, it makes me wonder whether her drive to remember is the loss of memory, or of her adeptitude. She seems to be doing extremely well in rebuilding her knowledge at a rapid pace, and it often sounds that what she really hungers for is her adeptitude. Would she take the latter without the former, if she could?

I think absolutely. Obviously she regrets the loss of her memory and having them stolen from her is a violation; she'd rather have them back than not. But she does begin almost immediately acquiring knowledge again; she also proves herself to be anything but powerless when she almost immediately begins using her communication and diplomatic skills for their ends. She could forge some kind of life for herself even after these losses.

And yet, the knowledge is not enough. I think she hungers for her adeptitude more than anything else. I think that's why she becomes Tarrant's pupil, so that she can learn as much as she can from him if their plan to regain her power and her memories fails.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I think that's why she becomes Tarrant's pupil, so that she can learn as much as she can from him if their plan to regain her power and her memories fails.

Absolutely. I've been re-reading today, and aside from her initial shock, she only becomes really eager to relearn something when it's related to Working.

She's rebuilt her life once before, hasn't she? When she was imprisoned by the first demons. So maybe the memory loss is something she knows how to deal with, but the adeptitude... to an adept that must be like suddenly going blind and deaf at once.

[fragorl.livejournal.com]

It has always seemed to me that this is partly why Tarrant takes such an interest in her situation in the first place, a sort of morbid curiousity/ experiment - can an adept be deprived of their powers and still retain some sort of sanity... It is interesting really that the trilogy should begin with the quest to return the powers of an adept that have been stolen and then end with all adepts being deprived of power... hmmmm methinks that i am rambling so I shall go to sleep! :)

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

It is interesting really that the trilogy should begin with the quest to return the powers of an adept that have been stolen and then end with all adepts being deprived of power...

I can't believe I never noticed that. And I suspect that if Ciani ever runs across Gerald and Damien again, they'd best find somewhere to hide because in CoS they really undo all their efforts from BSR where she's concerned.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Adepts lose their power, but Tarrant says they still have their Sight. So I suppose it depends on what Ciani really misses from being an adept.

[squeakygeeky]

I've missed so much! Nano ate me my soul all of my time this past month.

Am I the only one who wondered why, before sticking him into the fire, they bothered to undress Tarrant and then neatly fold his clothes to leave them in a tidy pile?/

I never thought about this before. CSF missed a perfectly good chance to have Gerald be naked for an entirely valid reason!

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

CSF missed a perfectly good chance to have Gerald be naked for an entirely valid reason!

Tragic, isn't it? It's such a wasted opportunity! (Though I'm not sure how well the others would have focused on regaining Ciani's memories if they had naked Gerald to distract them. Then again, I'm also not sure Ciani would have cared much under the circumstances.)

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

That's a really good question. I can't believe I never noticed before.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I think as fantasy readers we're used to clothes mysteriously appearing and being rescued for no actual reasons. Otherwise, half of all fantasy novels would have naked people in them.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

*laugh* That's true.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

The minute those poor doomed souls reached Sansha Crater and the ambush took them, the deception was ended forever. And in that moment their enemy, who very likely knew the party’s purpose - or at least guessed at it - would begin to search his domain with a fine-toothed comb, searching for them.

Did anybody else get visions of Frodo in Mordor at this passage?

It occurs to me that we've come all this way, and still fight scenes are brief and rare enough that they come as a surprise when we encounter them. This is not an action novel.

Which makes me wonder: do you think that Friedman set out to subvert fantasy tropes when she wrote this?

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Did anybody else get visions of Frodo in Mordor at this passage?

Absolutely. Along with imagining the Master of Lema's tower like Isengard.

I'm not sure I agree on fight/action scenes being rare. They happen quite regularly, but as you say, they're never fleshed out much. Which is a good thing because that way, fighting with fae backing doesn't have to be described.

Which makes me wonder: do you think that Friedman set out to subvert fantasy tropes when she wrote this?

As you've pointed out before, the rakh are a clear take on stereotypes. ,-)
I think she may have played with it a bit, but not nearly to the extent she could have. You need the stereotypes, to some extent, to make the story work. Otherwise the readers won't enjoy it. So there are the occasional nods to existing stories, but that's it. I suspect it would have been hard to do more and not slip into satire.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I guess you're right. They're really not rare, they're just usually very short. Which I suppose is more realistic than the elaborately choreographed and lovingly detailed accounts we get in some stories.