Coldfire re-read: When True Night Falls - Book 1

[trobadora]

Wow, where did the time go?! We're already done with the first book of When True Night Falls!

Discussion posts

Here are all our discussion posts for WTNF so far:

Prologue & Chapter 1
Chapters 2 & 3
Chapter 4
Chapters 5 & 6
Chapters 7 & 8
Chapters 9-11
Chapters 12 & 13

Some thoughts

The prologue to WNTF gives us more info on the background of Erna than almost everything else in the trilogy does. We actually witness the First Sacrifice itself. How crucial do you think that piece of history is to understanding the world the trilogy's set in? And how important is it for setting up the ending? Could Friedman just as well have left it as a tale within the story, without showing us directly, or does that add something vital?

Something I really noticed, thinking about the structure of the books: Just like with BSR, the first book of WTNF is set in a much more social environment - ship, city, where there are people. And just like with BSR, at the end of the first book our heroes leave for the wilderness. Which book do you think sets up its journey better? It's no secret that I feel WTNF holds together as a whole far better than BSR does; the first book is much more an integral part of it here. What's your take?

There's a lot of foreshadowing at the beginning of this novel, but the most thematically important one is, I think, the question of trust between Gerald and Damien. They've come a long way since they first met, but they've still got have a long way to go - and this book's something of a turning point, isn't it? It's not exactly surprising with a pair like this that that would be a major issue, and it has been from the start, and yet - here's where it really becomes important. Did you pick up on that this early on? Did you realise how central this was going to be?

I'm also fascinated by the bits of Church history and the Church's original agenda we get here, in Damien's attempt to explain things to Hesseth as well as in his reaction to Mercia. It's very well done, to show us how Church philosophy put into society-wide practice can look - the "Promised Land" of the first book's title - and what it can lead to. I wish we'd seen more of the Matrias, and knew better just how much of a hand they had in twisting an corrupting that vision.

What are you taking away from the first book? Anything new you discovered during this reread, anything you hadn't noticed before or hadn't remembered?

On Thursday, we'll be continuing with chapters 14 and 15 - onward to the Valley of Mists ...

Comments

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I've wondered sometimes whether the WTNF prologue wouldn't have fit better at the beginning of BSR. It's the point where I really understood how the planet works, which was a bit of a mystery to me throughout BSR, where I long thought it was plain standard magic. The BSR prologue packs a punch, but it might have worked just as well in WTNF, when the reader knows who is doing this - in BSR, it loses some impact because it takes (or at least took me) until mid-book to figure out that this was Gerald.

I like the first third of WTNF a lot better than the first part of BSR. There's more action here, more facts come across with a lot less infodumping, and the characters hold together better. The pacing in BSR is so slow at the beginning that my recs always come with "hang on for the first 150 pages or so, it gets a lot better and faster-paced after that".

Trust seems to take over from hunger as the central theme here for practically every character, and it's such a defining aspect. Just think of Hesseth letting herself be tied down and Worked by Gerald, when she knows he'd happily kill her once she's no longer needed.

There's also the big development in the Gerald/Damien relationship from a purely practical cooperation to more. That conversation when Gerald shares his discoveries about Mercia and essentially ruins Damien's happy illusions about the place is a turning point for me - it's got such a personal level to it along with the purely operational implications it has for them.

WTNF is the one I re-read most often, so I wasn't discovering nearly as much new as in BSR (where I tend to skip a lot). In comparison, it feels a lot more familiar.

[trobadora]

Hey there! Sorry for the late reply - I'm catching up on comments now.

Interesting suggestion about switching the prologues! I'm not sure how well that would work, though - the WTNF prologue gets a lot of its punch from the fact that we know more than the characters, that we know where all of this must lead.

Agreed about the slow pace of BSR's first part - this is, objectively speaking, not much faster, and yet it feels faster because we're already in the middle of a complex world.

That conversation when Gerald shares his discoveries about Mercia and essentially ruins Damien's happy illusions about the place is a turning point for me - it's got such a personal level to it along with the purely operational implications it has for them.

Yes, that's a fabulous scene, isn't it? Exactly because it's as much (or more) about the two of them as it is about Mercia.

[shadowystar.livejournal.com]

I think it was crucial for us to witness the very beginning of Working. If it were a tale within the story it would have undergone many changes from what really happened - because each story-teller tells the same story in his own way. We then would have the current version of the Legend of Landing. And of course, it's important for the very end. Of Working.
It's no secret as well that I first thought WTNF somewhat boring which I don't anymore but still BSR remains the better of the two for me, probably because of surprises it holds (we get to know the Hunter's name in it, etc.). However the journey's set up better in WTNF because there are as you said people to interact with and that gives us the chance to see other sides in our fave charas.
Oh yes, the question of trust struck me as important right from the beginning of my second re-read. It *is* central in this because the base of that trust changes. In BSR Damien was able to trust Gerald because of the latter one's self-imposed codex of honor. In WNTF Damien starts to trust Gerald because he's Gerald. That becomes more apparent later on in the book when that trust's being betrayed, and it's where Damien's painfully reminded of who the Hunter is.
What I take from the first book... complexity of society of the 'Promised Land', I think.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

In BSR Damien was able to trust Gerald because of the latter one's self-imposed codex of honor. In WNTF Damien starts to trust Gerald because he's Gerald. That becomes more apparent later on in the book when that trust's being betrayed, and it's where Damien's painfully reminded of who the Hunter is.

Oh, absolutely, totally agree. They had Ciani's wellbeing as their mutual goal that bound them in BSR and both had made promises about that. Now that kind of external connection is gone completely.

[trobadora]

I'd disagree - they've got their external connection in their mission against their mutual enemy Calesta, and it's that mission that forces them closer and closer. As Gerald himself says, their mutual enemy is why trust between them is becoming a necessity. But nonetheless, the trust between them frees itself from that external pressure and becomes personal in a way that couldn't be forced.

[trobadora]

Hey there! Sorry for the late reply - I'm catching up on comments now.

Yeah, the First Sacrifice is very important for the ending of the trilogy - I suppose because of that, it matters that we actually witness it as well.

I can't imagine finding WTNF boring! It's always been my favourite book of the trilogy.

In BSR Damien was able to trust Gerald because of the latter one's self-imposed codex of honor. In WNTF Damien starts to trust Gerald because he's Gerald.

That's an excellent way of putting it! It's become personal, no longer about external forces (no matter how much Damien likes to protest *g*).