Coldfire re-read: When True Night Falls - looking back at Book 2

[trobadora]

Wait a minute, we're already two thirds through WTNF? Where did the time go?! Anyway, now's your chance to bring up anything you've been meaning to say - it's time to look back at the Valley of Mists!

Discussion posts

Here are all our discussion posts for the second book of WTNF:

Chapters 14 & 15
Chapters 16-19
Chapters 20 & 21
Chapter 22
Chapters 23-26
Chapter 27
Chapter 28

Some thoughts

Apologies for being somewhat brain-dead tonight - these are going to be some very rudimentary thoughts. *g* Don't mind me - feel free to chime in and bring up anything you've been thinking about.

First off, did you discover anything new during this reread? Anything you'd forgotten or misremembered? Anything you never actually saw before? For me, this book yields less than just about any other part of the trilogy because this is what I've reread the most, and where I've skipped the least.

So much of this trilogy is people travelling cross-country. And yet it never gets boring. How the hell does Friedman do that? It's amazing - this book is one of my favourite parts of the whole trilogy. And yet not very much happens here, does it? Some violence, some hot pursuit, a bit of getting captured and then rescued ... but Friedman knows how to use all of those things to really make the characters shine. I'm impressed.

This part of the book brings WTNF's quartet of heroes together. Jenseny, of course, will play quite a part in the showdown. Did you see any of that that coming? If you remember - what did you think the purpose for including her was?

Terata country also gives us a brief insight into what we're facing, not just in this book but also in CoS. The Iezu illusion is worked in very skillfully here; you never see just how crucial the Iezu are to the whole thing. And of course the biological experiments here also show us that no matter how dangerous our current enemy may be, he's no match for Gerald. *g*

There's been a lot of emphasis here on Damien trusting Gerald, even to the point of being surprised again by something that has surprised him several times already, and of course Gerald confides in Damien to a degree he hasn't before when he explains to him just how much his own intelligence and curiosity damn him. How much of that do you think is organic development, and how much is emphasised precisely because of what's going to come next? Because for the rest of their journey, they're never again going to be as close - not until the end, when the Prince is defeated.

What am I forgetting? Oh yes, Hesseth. Somewhat fittingly, too, because what I wanted to bring up was that despite the fact that she's with them the whole way, we still actually know very little about her. How much of that do you think is deliberate, to keep her more alien than she could be if we understood her more, and how much is it just the natural consequence of the focus on Gerald and Damien? Thoughts?

Anyways, we're approaching the Black Lands now! On Thursday, we'll be continuing with the third book of WTNF and chapters 29 and 30 ...

Comments

[shadowystar.livejournal.com]

...but Friedman knows how to use all of those things to really make the characters shine...
Oh yes... Great work, isn't it?
If you remember - what did you think the purpose for including her was?
I supposed she was the one to be killed in that part of the trilogy. Because she's the one we know the least... And because having a main chara killed at the end of a book is just style. Not to mention the end of the series. Though Mrs. Friedman's way of solving that problem without actually killing Gerald (but only the Hunter) is really amazing.
I wasn't surprised about Hesseth, too. She'd played her part (exactly like Ciani did at the end of BSR) and CoS isn't that much about rakh so we don't need her for further understanding. And I think, Hesseth needs to remain mysterious but not only so because she needs to be alien but also because we shouldn't come to like her much - and thus wouldn't protest much when she gets killed. In earnest, did anyone cry out and scream: 'No, please, not Hesseth!' I didn't. No offense intended, if you did, though. :-)
...and how much is emphasised precisely because of what's going to come next? Because for the rest of their journey, they're never again going to be as close - not until the end, when the Prince is defeated.
I think both and to equal parts. Because people going through danger need to trust each other to some extent. Besides, for betrayal you need something to be betrayed - that being trust. So the more you trust somebody the more you are hurt when that trust is betrayed. And for Damien still being surprised by his feelings - that's, of course, what we usually call denial.

[trobadora]

I do love Hesseth. As little as we know about her, she's still a fantastic character, and I really didn't want her to be dead. I can't say I cared much about Senzei's death in BSR, or about Ciani leaving the narrative, or even about Jenseny's sacrifice - but Hesseth? Yes, that was a real loss. :(

[shadowystar.livejournal.com]

I can't say I cared much about Senzei's death in BSR, or about Ciani leaving the narrative, or even about Jenseny's sacrifice...
Have to partly agree here. I didn't care about Senzei or Ciani either, in fact I was kind of relived when the latter left the narrative. As for Jenseny - yes, I expected her to get killed and was curious how that's going to happen. BTW, I think, Jen's somewhat of a contradiction - because she doesn't seem to be older than 8 as it was pointed out here already - but OTOH, she sacrifices herself with a determination not every adult could match.
And for Hesseth - she was fascinating at the beginning, I have to admit that. Being alien and kind of animal and all and I liked that piece in BSR with her Working that wild creature (I forgot again what it's called...). But I didn't see much purpose for her being in WTNF. She hunts, comforts Jen, gives the Hunter something aesthetic to do at the beginning in allowing him to change her appearance, has some useful conversation with Damien, and - what...? It's not like Damien couldn't do the job. I think, here I fell for the author's narrative which is so centered on Damien/Gerald relationship but I just couldn't help.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

In earnest, did anyone cry out and scream: 'No, please, not Hesseth!'

I did, actually. :D No offense taken.

We mostly learn about people through getting their POV chapters. Hesseth, like Ciani, never gets one, and they both remain somewhat mysterious. I don't know if this is because Friedman just didn't see a need to get into their heads, or if there was something in there she wanted to remain unsaid.

[devohoneybee.livejournal.com]

I had very mixed feelings about Jenseny as a character -- I think it's very hard to get a child character right, especially one with "powers." Child characters in an otherwise adult-focused fiction tend to be some sort of cipher or symbol -- they just don't feel as real to me as the others. Or, if you are writing about children, there is a need to handle the narrative differently, somehow, to get the child-pov. The Terata, too, were in that category of not right, narratively (as well as way too referential to Lord of the Flies, as someone mentioned earlier). Though I did think it refreshing that Gerald was a real prick with Jenseny -- it reminded us that he is Not a Nice Man. *g* When I was reading it, I remember wanting Gerald to finally value her, to be impressed with her tidal fae ability, and find a way to learn more about the fae as a result. I wanted him to be a good Daddy, in other words. It was more intersting, in the end, that he really wasn't, though I think she won his respect in the end by her self sacrifice. Which sort of elevates her beyond her child status, I think, at least archetypally -- she takes responsibility for the big act. So, again, I don't quite "buy" her as a child. I'm sort of rambling here -- and somewhat suspicious of a fanfic-like tendency (in certain circles, present company excepted, of course) to diss the female characters in some way to clear the way for the slash pairing. I LOVE the slash pairing, mind you, but as has been said before in this discussion, would really wish Friedman wrote her female characters (child, adult, and Ernan) with the same wholeness and range as her men.

[trobadora]

I'm actually surprised at how little irritating I found Jenseny, considering I'm generally less than fond of child characters, too. *g* By the end, I had warmed up to her, though admittedly not so much that I'd have been particularly sorry to lose her. She's much more childlike than her age, in some ways, and yet in others, as you say, more archetypal than an actual child. So somehow it works for me.

And I'm really fascinated by the relationship (or not) between Jenseny and Tarrant, so I find it very interesting what you say about wanting him to be a Good Daddy. I'm glad he didn't turn into that, but I'm also glad about the glimpses of fatherly!Gerald we do get, such as him buying toys for her. Even if that was merely a selfish desire to keep her occupied - as Damien says, no one else even thought of it. I like that. :-)

What you say about the female characters - I really think they're no less fully realised than the male characters who aren't Gerald and Damien. YMMV.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say that Friedman's female characters are less developed, either, but there is something odd going on here.

It's worth noting that the two main characters in this story are male, and as main characters they naturally get more screen time and character development than anybody else. And we do get Narilka and Jenseny POVs, though not Hesseth or Ciani. It's arguable what would consist of an appropriate level of representation for women in this story, but I'm fairly content (though it does annoy me that Rasya dies).

But Friedman's women do tend to come with Issues (and not just in the Coldfire trilogy). Hesseth is actually probably the most stable, well-adjusted female character I've ever seen Friedman write. Narilka's okay, but she does have that big sign saying, "Delicate and feminine = victim!" and Ciani, who starts out disproportionately powerful due to her adeptitude, also gets victimized--though she never descends to the point of accepting the role of victim; she's always a scrapper. And you've got the Hunter wandering around playing vampire rapist. All that's in one of her stories that doesn't dwell extensively on gender roles and power struggles.

I don't think Friedman is implying that women are weak or uninteresting; I just think she has an abiding fascination with the theme. But I think it's also worth looking at here, because in the Coldfire trilogy, victimization, violation, seduction, and compromise of self aren't things that only happen to women.