hunters_forest | Coldfire re-read: When True Night Falls

trobadora posting in

In this chapter, our heroes make some plans, Jenseny offers some surprises, and Damien and Gerald have a nice little chat.

Plot summary

Damien is on edge, Tarrant is actively hostile towards Jenseny, and tensions are generally high as they debate strategy and agree they need to get off the continent quickly. Jenseny's powers give them another surprise when her visions produce a lights show, and our heroes discover she knows quite a bit about their enemy's territory. Tarrant storms out after she proves she knows things about him she shouldn't, and Damien follows. Outside the city walls, they talk about Tarrant's vanity, and tidal fae, and their mission, and whether they have any chance whatsoever. Oh, and they get thoroughly rained on. *g*

Quotes

"Maybe your species is adapting to this world at last. Once upon a time your people couldn't see or work the earth-fae at all; now human adepts take those skills for granted. Maybe the fae can alter humans, after all - but only slowly, over the course of generations."
A chill ran up his spine,. If the fae was capable of changing humanity like it changed the native species . . . he looked at Hesseth's half-human form, at her oh-so-human features, and shivered. What if adaptation to this world meant giving up the very things that made them human? What if the price of universal Sight was the loss of their human heritage?

Although there was a channel established between him and Tarrant, he had never before tried to access it, or to use it for his own purposes. On a certain level it bothered him to do so, for there was certainly an unspoken agreement between himself and the Hunter that neither of them would use that channel for a Working except by mutual agreement. To hell with that, he thought grimly.

There were wraiths outside the city borders as well as more solid demonlings, enough of the latter to make him sorry that he hadn't brought his sword along. The price of traveling with Tarrant (he thought as he dispatched one particularly nasty winged thing, which had managed to dig its claws into his shoulder before he gutted it with a back-swipe of the hunting knife) was that you tended to forget such things existed. They sure as hell didn't manifest in the Hunter's presence.

"I think you wanted him alive. I think that vanity is your one weakness, and this time you couldn't let go. The Tarrant line was something you'd created and you couldn't resist the temptation to see what he would do with it all - the land, the power, the title - once you were gone. No mercy involved, Hunter - just another one of your precious experiments, to add to all the others." When Tarrant didn't respond, he pressed, "Well? Am I right?"

"Longevity gives one a special perspective, Reverend Vryce. I was born in an era when adepts were rare, and I've watched their ranks increase with each new generation. Yet few of us have children of our own, and the Sight is rarely inherited. So what other explanation is there? This planet is changing us, bringing us in line with all the native species. But the tidal fae . . . that's something else entirely."

"If you wish," the Hunter whispered.
And that was so unlike him that Damien just stopped speaking altogether and stared at the man. Wondering why his sudden complacency scared him more than all the threats, all the anger. Wondering why he suddenly had the sinking feeling that the very rules he'd been playing by had been changed, only no one would tell him what the new rules were. Or when they had been instituted.

The words caught in his throat; he had to force them out. "If you really think we can't win here . . . if you think there's no chance at all . . . then tell me. In those words."
"And then what? You'll give it up and go home?"
"I came here to risk my life for a cause. Not to waste it away in some suicidal exercise. That benefits no one." He waited for a response, but when the Hunter was not forthcoming he pressed, "I may not care much for your lifestyle, but I do value your judgment. You know that. So if you tell me that we don't have a chance of success here - not any chance at all - I'll reconsider our mission."

"There is a chance," the Hunter whispered. "A very slim chance, but it's there. And the girl's presence might cost you dearly, but it will also confound your enemies. Only time can tell whom that will serve most in the end."
He felt something unknot deep in his gut, something cold and hard and - yes - scared. For the first time in several long minutes he dared to draw in a deep breath. "That's enough, then." Who would have thought such a tenuous judgment could give him such a sense of relief? "Thank you."

His descendants may still be alive, he realized. A whole Tarrant clan, sired by this demonic pride, baptised in sacrificial slaughter. Dear God! To live and die under such a shadow . . . What would that do to a child, to come and face such a thing? What mark would it leave to the generations that followed? I shiver just to think of it.

Thoughts

Jenseny's talents manifest in interesting ways here. Pretty cool visual effects, don't you think? Although it would probably look terribly cheesy on film. *g*

Speaking of Jenseny, one question from a former chapter is answered here - not authoritatively, but I'm inclined to trust Tarrant's judgement: Jenseny's vision can see through Iezu illusion. Well, no wonder she had to die at the end of the book!

What do you think about Damien's fears when it comes to adaptation to the fae? Both he and Gerald place great importance on not losing their humanity in the process of learning to live on Erna, but how founded to you think this fear is? If humanity can use sorcery, and produce adepts, without it being too much, going too far - why would the tidal fae be such a different thing? (And would it be so terrible if they did change that much?)

Since we get a reminder here - it's very convenient that faeborn creatures don't manifest around Tarrant, isn't it? It could have got very tiresome, not to mention hard to sustain, if they'd had to constantly battle the things all the way across the country. Not to mention it'd have left one hell of a trail.

Of course we know what's going on with Tarrant more than Damien does - we know about the Prince's offer, after all. But Damien does pick up on Tarrant's weird behaviour, and I do wonder: What's made him so reticent? Why is he, after his initial fury, drawing back and leaving the decision about taking Jenseny with them to Damien?

Speaking of: Was there ever really any question about that? Damien was hardly going to let Tarrant kill Jenseny, and what else were they supposed to do - dump her somewhere in the city?

Every time I read the conversation about whether their mission has any chance of success a shiver runs down my spine. Of course half of that is because we know how much is in there, and what Tarrant is already planning at that point, but it's also because this scene is just fabulously well done. Tarrant's strange reticence, Damien's question, Tarrant's answer which isn't exactly very enthusiastic, and Damien's relief ... I'm always touched by how completely Damien trusts Tarrant's judgement, too. :D

What do you think Damien would have done if Tarrant had told him here that no, they didn't actually have any chance? *g*

It's very skillfully done, including the reminder about Tarrant's surviving son here. Of course we theoretically knew about that since the BSR prologue, but I doubt most people reading the trilogy for the first time would have given it much thought if they noticed at all. But now we're getting closer to the end of the second book, so it's time for some foreshadowing for CoS. If you remember your first reading - did you expect this to come up again, or did Andrys take you by surprise? *g*

Also, we get a nice reminder about the channel between Damien and Gerald. That, too, will play a part in the next book again. Although I have to say, have a soul bond and use it so little? That's almost a crime! *g*

On Thursday, we'll be continuing with chapters 32 and 33 ...

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

fyrie.livejournal.com

If you remember your first reading - did you expect this to come up again, or did Andrys take you by surprise? *g*

This came out of the blue for me. I think the prologue originally shocked me so much, what with the infanticide and vivisection, that I completely forgot there were more than 3 children. And then what she does with Andrys was so seriously messed up and fantastic :D

From:

fragorl.livejournal.com

That was the one thing that struck me as a little bit strange in the books - the prologue where Almea sees the bodies of 2 of her 3 children and realises her husband had gone mad - she doesnt even seem to think or register the fact that one child might still be alive. U would have thought she would be desperate to grab on for any streak of hope or even ask him what had happened to the 3rd...

From:

trobadora

Yeah - thing is, the author can't deceive the reader if she has her character noticing. *g*

From:

trobadora

I don't think I noticed, either. A lot of people didn't! But then, I didn't pay all that much attention to the prologue the first time through. I rushed through most of the book until we got to where Damien and Gerald meet. *g*

From:

prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com

Andrys and his entire plotline surprised the heck out of me. He not not be out of the blue, but that storyline sure seemed to be!

There's a lot of oddity going on in this bit, even when you know part of why Tarrant's acting so oddly. I don't think it's adeptitude, or even especially the tidal fae, that freaks them out; I think it's the evidence that Erna has the potential to change humanity far more than either of them had realized. At that point, you start asking: how far could it go? And that, I expect, is what disturbs them.

It might also be explain more about the ending. Tarrant's surprised enough by the prospect here that I infer he might've been more concerned about the fae's effects on humans more from a social or psychological standpoint--being bound to the planet because they'd come to rely on the fae so thoroughly that the kind of technology they'd need beyond its atmosphere would be forever beyond their reach. But the idea that it could literally affect human evolution, that humans could actually become a whole different species...that seems to be new and not especially welcomed by either of our churchmen here.

I think Tarrant draws back on the matter of Jenseny after her power manifests like that because it changes the game. Initially, I'm pretty sure he saw her mainly as a great way for Damien to get himself killed. But then it turns out she's potentially useful, and even better, a completely unknown variable for their enemies. The advantage of unpredictability is a hard one to pass up.

I always wanted to see more of the link, too.

From:

trobadora

I know what you mean about the storyline - and I still feel like it's ... not as well integrated as it might be. We'll see how that holds up when we actually get to reading that part!

Not sure how surprised Tarrant is here - he seems to take Jenseny's adaptation far more in stride than Damien expects, certainly. It's Damien who reacts so strongly against the idea; I got the feeling Tarrant had already considered these things a long time ago.

And yes, you're probably right about Gerald's attitude towards Jenseny. :-)

From:

carmentalis.livejournal.com

Jenseny's vision can see through Iezu illusion. Well, no wonder she had to die at the end of the book!

*g* Oh, I'm sure she could have lasted until at least the first chapter of CoS - at which point Tarrant might have quietly chucked her overboard in an unobserved moment. ;-)

Damien's fear of too much adaptation - in a way it's a double standard. It's evolution, especially if it really happens as slowly as Hesseth thinks it does (a few generations seems regular for Erna; Senzei said something about giraffes growing bigger in that kind of space somewhere). And a civilisation based on Earth should subscribe to evolution - I'll ignore Creationism for now. It's a new environment, so it's hardly surprising to see adaptation. That the tidal fae should be such a shock is something I never quite got. They're already using Earth fae, which they probably started with since it's the most common, as well as Solar fae and Dark fae. Tidal fae is new, but it's no bigger a step forward than the first adept to come around.

Since we get a reminder here - it's very convenient that faeborn creatures don't manifest around Tarrant, isn't it?

Whenever that comes up, I can't help wondering if he also repels mosquitoes.

Why is he, after his initial fury, drawing back and leaving the decision about taking Jenseny with them to Damien?

I see several possibilities. He must have known that it would drive a wedge between him and Damien if she was left behind now. Then there's curiosity; he is irritated by her, but she's also something new to observe and study. And last but not least, with all the divinings he's done, he might well know that she's necessary for their success in some way. And since this is Gerald and open agreement to letting her come at this point would mean conceding defeat against Damien... why not make it look like a stalemate and at least not openly agree?

What do you think Damien would have done if Tarrant had told him here that no, they didn't actually have any chance? *g*

We'd have gotten a good overview about the swearword vocabulary on Erna. *g* But I think, ultimately, he'd have listened after quizzing Gerald about it for a few nights to convince himself.

If you remember your first reading - did you expect this to come up again, or did Andrys take you by surprise? *g*

I never noticed it in the prologue, so this was a surprise already. Andrys... I didn't expect the Tarrants to really become an issue since they didn't show up before. Andrys came as a surprise, and not as an entirely pleasant one. All through his first chapter I was hopeful that he wouldn't survive it. *g*

From:

rekishi

Oh but humans, even on Erna, DO subscribe to evolution, Damien is entirely comfortable with all kinds of animals changing in no time at all. Humans are simply not including themselves into this equation, they consider their status quo as just that and this makes sense insofar as that humans
a) are used to adapting their planet to their needs (it is a bit of an extrapolation but even if you have a planet similar to Earth you will have to change certain things to make it liveable, and if it's just introduction of domesticated plants and animals to ensure food supply and let's not even talk about efforts in terraforming) and
b) have switched evolution off in themselves. And I know this will sound incredibly wrong and inhumane but I'm saying this from a 'darwinistic' point of view, not my personal one: As long as a society uses contraception and also keeps every cripple and retard alive and even propagates with these individuals, evolution is off. NOT my personal opinion, I want that stressed.

Humans are hypocrites in many a respect, that shouldn't surprise you. Hesseth has less scruples, which I find very nice :) Humans though don't quite realize that they're not losing their humanity but gain something in the process.

Andrys. I knew there was an Andrys because my friend who initially made me read Coldfire told me I'd want to hurt someone in book three. Yeah. Well. I wanted to kill him. And yes, I wished he would just DIE already, too.

From:

carmentalis.livejournal.com

You've put the evolution thing much better than I could. :-)
And with the switching on and off of evolution, it should be possible to do that on Erna in a speedy version, too. If they can evolve cats from local species in a few generations, breeding humans who fit better should be possible too. That they didn't do it says a lot about their perception of humanity as just right, the way it is.

Humans though don't quite realize that they're not losing their humanity but gain something in the process.

prettyarbitrary has a good point above - what if the process changes them too much to still be able to leave the planet? Regaining the stars is one of the stated goals of the Church, so anything that ties them too much to Erna could actully result in them losing their humanity, if they define humanity by their human, interstellar-traveling heritage.

Those Andrys chapters are going to be such fun! Does the boy have a fan at all? Anyone who doesn't actively dislike him?

From:

rekishi

Well no, because they evolved cats and horses (and unhorses) from local species. Humans aren't bound to the fae in the same way (I'd love to interview Gerald on how he thinks this works...).

Oh and Gerald said the Sight is rarely inherited...recessive gene after all?

And yes, the fae would probably bind humans too closely to the planet *nods* Which might also be a a point why they fear it.

Andrys. I know Gerald has this policy about only leaving the youngest of the mainline of the family alive but couldn't he have made an exception this time?? He keeps close tabs on the Tarrant clan, he must have known what an utter idiot (and how easy to impress) Andrys must have been. Gah!

Coldfire re-read: When True Night Falls - chapter 31

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