Coldfire re-read: Crown of Shadows - chapters 20-23

[trobadora]

Important announcement:
alighiera and I have been giving things some thought, and we've come to the conclusion that now that discussion posts aren't quite as busy as they used to be, it'll be better to have a little more time for each (group of) chapter(s). So from now on, new discussion posts will go up on Mondays only. The reading schedule has been updated accordingly.

Now, on to your regularly (re-)scheduled discussion. I won't pretend to be unbiased on the subject of Andrys, but OMG, seriously ... some of what's ahead ... Well, see for yourself:

Plot summary

Chapter 20
Narilka meets Andrys again when he comes to pick up his coronet and armour. She wonders why the hell she cares as much as she does. (So does the audience.) She confronts him, he attempts to nobly reject her, she tells him about the Hunter's promise. And then there's kissing. (Ugh.)

Chapter 21
Tarrant wakes up in Karril's temple, for once out of plans and despairing. Damien tries to get him thinking again by offering an idea about how to kill a Iezu, but even that doesn't quite shake him out of it. (Seems plotting murder is not a miracle cure after all.)

Chapter 22
Damien meets the Patriarch and discovers he already knows about Damien's trip to Hell. But the Patriarch has also realised his visions come from Calesta, and therefore won't expel Damien - after all, can't please a demon! That would be bad.

Chapter 23
More news: More violent outbreaks near the Forest. This time, it's a lynch mob.

Quotes

• It frightened her how upset she was, and how out of control she felt. If any other man had acted like this she would have written him off, or taken matters into her own hands and initiated some new contact. With this man she couldn't do either. At night she lay awake, hopelessly sleepless, aching with a need that was as much pure sexual hunger as any more civilized drive. She had sensed a like need in him when he had kissed her. So why hadn't he returned? And if it was just a fleeting moment's pleasure for him, a brief sidetrack in his sport, why couldn't she call it that and forget it?


• Andrys Tarrant's presence in the room made her feel strangely naked, painfully vulnerable. Blessed Saris! How had he done so much to her by doing so little?


• It was bad enough taking shelter in the cellar of a pagan temple, without also implying approval of its contents.
  There was nowhere else to go, he explained silently. To Tarrant, to the Patriarch, to himself. Nowhere else we could be safe, for the hours it would take him to recover.
  Hell. There was a time when even that argument couldn't have gotten him to stay down here, when he would have safeguarded the sanctity of his person as vehemently as he now protected the Hunter's flesh. When had the last vestiges of that righteous dedication faded? When had he come to regard such things so lightly, that it no longer bothered him where he was or who his allies were, as long as they served his purpose?


• "You don't remember?"
  "I don't ... not him ... I remember you. You came for me." His tone was one of amazement as he whispered, "Through ..."
  "Yeah," he said quickly. Not anxious to rehash it. "Through all that."


• The Hunter's eyes were fixed on him now, and there was a brightness in their depths that Damien had feared he'd lost forever. A hunger, but not for triumph. Not even for survival. For knowledge. "Tell me," he whispered.


• "Damien."
  He didn't turn back, but he did stop. Waiting.
  "Thank you," the Hunter whispered.


• I saved you, he thought bitterly to Tarrant. Now you do your job, and help me save them.


• Help him, God, he begged. If he is to die, help him to make the best of that. Now that the last barrier is being removed, help him rediscover his humanity. But though he wished for the best for his dark companion, he knew Gerald Tarrant's stubbornness well enough to guess that such a prayer was futile. The habit of nine hundred years was not a thing to be discarded lightly. And the Unnamed had indeed remade him to suit its own special hunger; the Hunter still required blood and cruelty to live, every bit as much as Damien required food and water. How did you fight a thing like that? How did you win redemption against such odds?
  I'll get you through this, he promised silently. Somehow.


• "I have dreams," he said quietly. "Visions of the truth, that take place in real time. I thought once that they were clairvoyancies. I thought that God had blessed me with a gift-or perhaps cursed me-so that I might serve my people better. Now ..." He paused; a muscle tensed along the line of his jaw. "Now I know them for what they are. Visions crafted by a demon, to herd me along his chosen path. He thought me blinded by my faith, and thus never tried to hide his marks. Only now ... I see them. Now I know."


• "What I should do now is ask you to tell me what kind of judgment is suitable for such a crime. What should be done to a priest whose every action defies the vows he made to God? But we both know where that kind of question leads, don't we? We both know what the end result would be. And the fact is ..." Was that a tremor in his voice? "The fact is, these dreams were given to me for a reason. It was Calesta's intention that I should react in anger and cast you out from the Church, thus breaking your spirit and rendering you vulnerable to his assaults. And for that reason - that reason alone - I won't do it."


• "I won't give him that victory, Vryce. I won't serve a demon's will in any way. Even when he's right."


• The Holy Father of the Eastern Autarchy, the living representative of the One God, must now hesitate in performing his duty for fear of pleasing a demon! Is that what the Church had come to? Is that what Calesta had done to them? He despaired to see this sign of it, and to feel it echo in his own soul.


• He can't officially approve of me, he realized, but he doesn't dare drive me away. Not only because it would please Calesta, but because I'm one of the few people who really understand what's at stake here.

Thoughts

• I guess Narilka really desperately needs to get laid. Otherwise this whole Andrys thing makes no sense. Or does it? Anyone have any theories that might explain it? - Incidentally, what irritates me most about the whole business is how much it weakens Narilka, who is otherwise a fabulous character. All this teenaged melodrama. *grumbles*


• Damien once again reminds us - and himself - how far he's come, seeking shelter in a pagan temple. Accepting help from Karril, who may be a demon but more importantly is Tarrant's friend. He wouldn't have accepted it if he'd been on its own, back when it was Ciani. Do you think this can be called corruption in any sense of the word?


• Gerald's thirst for knowledge is one thing I've always loved about him, and the trilogy in general. We've talked about this before, but it can't be mentioned too often: it's so rare in fiction, this appreciation for knowledge itself, above and beyond its usefulness in a particular situation.


• I also appreciate the way Friedman built the story here - how the solution to the Calesta problem doensn't come out of nowhere, but the hints have been there, partially as far back as the first book. It's all set up very well.


• The Patriarch manages to irritate me even when he's doing the right thing. Not expelling Damien because it's what Calesta wants? Good thing. Doing it because you won't listen to a demon even when he's right? Not so much. He's not rejecting the obvious conclusion because Calesta's incredibly dangerous and must be opposed - he himself says he's doing it because he's a demon. And I just can't approve of that. If you believe in something, if you believe it's the right course of action, then no matter who says it, it's still right. Or what do you think?


• Do you think the Patriarch has any idea just how dangerous Calesta is? Did he listen to Damien at all? Do you think he lets himself believe it? And if so, why the hell isn't he doing anything about it, instead choosing to start a second front with his war against the Forest?


• So, what is going on around the Forest?

Next Monday, we'll be continuing with chapter 24-27 ...

Comments

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

These chapters have one little bit I absolutely adore - it's the first time, and the first of only three instances, that Tarrant calls Damien by his first name. :-D

I guess Narilka really desperately needs to get laid.

Agreed. The whole drama probably comes from the Forest aftermath of having erotic dreams about the Hunter for three years. That's got to leave a girl frustrated. ;-)

Do you think this can be called corruption in any sense of the word?

Corruption by the definition of the Church, certainly, and he knows it. Otherwise I'd call it a healthy sense for reality and survival. He's got no other options at this point, and he's got his priorities straight. Save the world first, then consider the moral and socio-ethical implications.

# it's so rare in fiction, this appreciation for knowledge itself, above and beyond it's usefulness in a particular situation.

*nod* It's not often that you get to see a powerful creature like Tarrant go and do his own research by sorting through thousands of pages of paper. And remember that even back in BSR, Damien and Senzei went and did library research before they headed out for their big adventure. These books have protagonists who not only know how to use maps and other information, but also know to pack them in the first place.

Do you think the Patriarch has any idea just how dangerous Calesta is?

Good question. Does he think of him just as any normal demon? A convenient little distraction to keep the Hunter occupied and open up the opportunity of attacking the Forest? If the Church has never been under attack by a demon before - and it doesn'T seem like it's happened - then the Patriarch might never even have considered what this would mean. It's one thing to lead a little expedition against followers of a cult, but quite another when you're facing a creature that can twist reality around you.

[trobadora]

Oh! Yes yes yes on Tarrant calling Damien by his name! :D

I'm really not sure how much the Patriarch understands about Calesta. He knows, in theory, and he's, after all, funding Damien to do something about it even though he doesn't approve of the methods - that says to me that he takes it pretty seriously after all. But at the same time he's doing not a single thing against Calesta himself, apart from not letting himself be goaded into sacking Damien. It just makes no sense, and doesn't exactly make me think better of him.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

it's the first time, and the first of only three instances, that Tarrant calls Damien by his first name.

<3<3<3 I always wished for more of that.

[ladyphoenix9]

I also appreciate the way Friedman built the story here - how the solution to the Calesta problem doensn't come out of nowhere, but the hints have been there, partially as far back as the first book. It's all set up very well.

That's what amazed me too, since I read the series backwards the clues really stood out. I wish this group would have been around as the trilogy came out to see how many people spotted the right clues and put things together. Would have been loads more fun than, say, speculating on Harry Potter series. That was just too easy. XD

[trobadora]

Heh. Yes, it's really interesting on rereading, too! But the first time through I'm sure it completely passes you by. (Not that I remember my own first reading too well!)

And agreed, it would have been very cool if we could have discussed the books as they came out!

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I...guess she really does need to get laid. I just...maybe it's the face? She's all into beauty--worships it as her god, even--so maybe all a guy needs to do is be really hot in her general vicinity? Even if he's vacant behind the eyes, Andrys is very pretty. I know a lot of us like, y'know, some intelligence in our men (or women) but hey, the pretty helps. A lot, in some cases. ^_^

Do you think this can be called corruption in any sense of the word?

Oh, sure. If your #1 priority is keeping the soul intact, then being willing to sacrifice your own integrity (or someone else's, and Damien has often not stopped the Hunter from murdering, sometimes horribly) is certainly corruption. Damien's #1 priority just happens to be the souls of everybody else. He's kind of burning his at both ends. Which is the Patriarch's stated issue with him. It's one thing for Damien to serve the Church; it's another entirely to have him represent it.

But then, there's a school of thought that goes: if you sell your soul to save someone else's, then it's an act of good, not evil. I haven't seen God lately, so I haven't had a chance to ask. ;)

If you believe in something, if you believe it's the right course of action, then no matter who says it, it's still right. Or what do you think?

*snicker* There's really a general dislike of the Patriarch, isn't there? He irritates people when he's being an idealist and when he's not.

Remember that in the Patriarch's mind, demon = incredibly dangerous and must be opposed. They're synonyms. If he says he's not doing it because Calesta's a demon, then what he means is, "I'm not cooperating with anything whose intention is to eat souls and destroy the world."

So I think this is an example of pragmatic faith. The Patriarch stands by his convictions, we've seen that, but he's never been blind to the fact that life is less than perfect and sometimes all you get to choose between is the greater vs. the lesser evil (even if his criteria for that are higher than Damien's). The Patriarch thinks Damien deserves to be booted, but he's clearly aware that Calesta's got strings attached to that idea right now. And for all his sins, Damien's not out to deliberately harm the Church.

(OMG, it's a cop drama! Damien's the loose Canon!)

I think that at this point he might have started to believe what Damien told him about Calesta. He never seems to have had a problem with Damien's truthfulness; just his reasoning for taking the actions he does.

[trobadora]

Heh. Seriously, Narilka makes no sense to me.

But then, there's a school of thought that goes: if you sell your soul to save someone else's, then it's an act of good, not evil.

Yes - I would absolutely agree. In fact, I'd say if you could save someone and don't out of concern for your own soul, that's a fundamentally selfish act. Completely understandable and human, but not good.

If he says he's not doing it because Calesta's a demon, then what he means is, "I'm not cooperating with anything whose intention is to eat souls and destroy the world."

Sure! But if Calesta claimed the sky was blue, would he deny it, too, just to be contrary? That's how he seems to me sometimes. Even an evil being is capable of telling the truth, or suggesting the correct path of action - for reasons of its own, certainly, but that doesn't make the truth any less true, or the action any less correct. (Yes, the Patriarch always irritates me. *g*)

And one thing I always respected about Damien was that he never fell into this trap - he always listened to Tarrant, even when he was sure he was up to no good, because evil doesn't necessarily mean his advice is useless. (And that was before they really got to know each other.)

I think that at this point he might have started to believe what Damien told him about Calesta.

And again I ask: If the Patriarch takes the Calesta threat even a little bit seriously, why the hell is he content to just let Damien do his thing but doesn't do a thing about it himself? It just makes no sense to me.