Coldfire re-read: Crown of Shadows - chapters 24-27

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

In case you're wondering why there was no post on Thursday (and why you're seeing me posting on a Monday), a quick reminder: we've changed the schedule to a single weekly post every Monday. You can find the updated posting schedule here if you need a reference.

On with today's chapters, then!


Plot Summary

Chapter 24

Andrys visits the Patriarch, and gets invited to join the next Church field trip to the center of the Forest.

Chapter 25

Damien and Gerald do research and hatch plans on how to best kill a Iezu. With some success, too.

Chapter 26

It was a dark and stormy night Damien pays a night-time visit to the Cathedral, has a heart-to-heart with God, and resigns as a priest.

Chapter 27

The Mother of the Iezu (and doesn't that make her the equivalent of the Virgin Mary?) contemplates motherhood and teh difficulties of raising what seems to amount to teenagers.




Quotes

• In another time and place he might have imagined it had something to do with the perceived importance of his family (he had told that priestess his name, after all) or some other matter connected with the fact that the Tarrants had been avid Church supporters for longer than most families had even been in existence.



• "The Forest has always been a thorn in our side. I'm sure you know that the Church once tried an all-out effort to cleanse the place, once and for all. It failed, of course. You can't do battle with the planet itself, and that's what the Forest is: a whirlpool of fae that no act of man can unmake. They didn't understand that then, or perhaps they simply chose not to believe it. It cost them dearly."
  He nodded, and muttered something meant to indicate that yes, he knew Church history, he remembered the salient details of the Great War and its devastating finale.



• "For years now the Forest has been a reasonable neighbor: evil, but civilized. Its neighbors enjoyed a tense and wary peace, and it in return has been permitted to flourish unopposed for more than five centuries." He laid his own glass down on the table and seemed to be studying its rim thoughtfully as he said, "Obviously, that truce no longer exists."



• "I need you to stand in for the Hunter. I need you to be him. Not in truth- not in your heart or in your soul-but in those aspects which his creatures will recognize."



• "A possible plan," he said softly. "But I need more data before I can assess its practicality. I think Mer Reese would have collected that data. I mink that some of it may be in his notes."



• When she was out of hearing Damien said softly, "That would have bothered me once."
  "And you would have been a pain in the ass about it. Fortunately for us both, you changed."



• "As of this dawn I have only twenty-nine days left. At the end of that time the Unnamed will dissolve our compact, and I will, in all probability, die. So you see, Reverend Vryce, I have nothing to lose by taking such a chance. Perhaps the earth-fae will claim me, as it has with so many others, but if I can impress it with one last Working ... I would like to take that bastard with me," he said, his voice suddenly fierce. "I would like my death to mean that much. Can you understand that?"



• "It'll be a long and dangerous journey, and not one I would ordinarily relish. Few living men have survived it. And if Calesta should guess at my purpose, and turn his full illusory skill against me ..." He drew in a deep breath, and exhaled it slowly. Damien thought he saw him tremble. "You don't have to go. I'll understand."
  "Of course-"
  "You have a life here, and duties, and a future-"
  "Gerald." He waited until the Hunter was silent, then said sharply, "Don't be a fool. Of course I'm going."



• His formal resignation in its place, Damien Vryce began the long and lonely walk back to his apartment.



• She had given them orders. They had disobeyed. She had set forth the laws of their existence, which was her right as their creator. They had chosen to ignore her.
  They should die.

Thoughts

• Andrys' thoughts about why he's been asked to see the Patriarch makes me wonder a bit. He knows his family has been supporting the Church, but it seems the fact that the Prophet is his ancestor isn't something he's aware of (at least in this moment). It's something that's bugged me in fic-writing too: just who knows what about the various identities and reincarnations of the Prophet?



• Finally, details on the Great War! We've done plenty of speculation on this when we discussed BSR, and here we get a paragraph's worth of info on what happened and why the Church and the Forest ended up co-existing. Seems like the Church couldn't wipe out that pool of dark fae, but that the Hunter did them a big favour by moving in after their failed attempt and taming the place. Somehow I suspect Amoril should be glad the Hunter won't have the opportunity to punish him for breaking a truce of five centuries. Getting your brain eaten by evil demons is no excuse for slacking, after all.



• Andrys pretending to be the Hunter - it simply doesn't work. All they have in common is appearance. And with forty-odd generations between them, the genes really can't be a factor anymore.



• I love the bits of bickering between Damien and Tarrant. It's just so them.



• prettyarbitrary pointed it out in one of the previous discussions - it's rare to see powerful beings (and heroes in general) bother to do research rather than simply go ahead and do things. The only tv show I can think of that ever relied so much on book-knowledge to fight the evil guys is Buffy.



• For someone who's determined to cheat death for as long as possible, Tarrant has a tendency to be willing to sacrifice himself for the cause.



• One little thing I've always wondered about is why Tarrant is so surprised that Damien is being sponsored by the Church. He's still a priest, after all, so why would him having Church money be this weird?



• Any thoughts on the Mother of the Iezu? I remember not really caring all that much about her on my first read, and those are pages I usually skip. It's just never seemed all that important to me, even though of course it's an essential piece of background info.

Next week we'll look back at The Dark Within - we'd love for you to join us then!

Comments

[trobadora]

The only tv show I can think of that ever relied so much on book-knowledge to fight the evil guys is Buffy.

And that was hardly ever real research - what we saw was mostly a group of people randomly leafing through random books until the script made them hit on the right bit of info. *eyerolls*

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

At least they pretended. Usually it's the task of the geek or the girl to remember the random bit of info that's necessary.

(And you just know how much Gerald would have loved to draw up proper charts and statistics on Senzei's data. *g*)

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

For someone who's determined to cheat death for as long as possible, Tarrant has a tendency to be willing to sacrifice himself for the cause.

This one makes me wonder. Tarrant says near the end that he never really thought he couldn't beat the odds, and that's what gives his sacrifice power. I think he might just be framing his argument in a way he knows will impact Damien--not lying to him, really (they know each other too well for that at this point), but making an emotional appeal.

Who knows what about the Prophet, Hunter, Neocount, etc. Okay.

At the start of the books, no one has ever knowingly seen the Hunter's face and survived to tell of it.

I remember at the beginning that Damien is aware that the Prophet and the Neocount are the same person. This is what throws him when he first sees the Hunter's keep--he recognizes that it's modeled after the Prophet's seat at Merentha. It's when he sees the trappings--the Keep, the robes of the Order of the Flame--he makes the connection.

We can assume, I think, that if Damien knows Neocount = Prophet, then others in the Church do as well. Whether it's common knowledge outside the Church, who knows? It never comes up. (For this purpose, assume Andrys counts as an honorary Churchman, given his family connections.)

It's also common knowledge, at least among Churchmen, that the Prophet fell and performed a gruesome sacrifice of his own family. Damien and the Patriarch both refer to this. Andrys is also well aware of this fact.

Now, gruesome sacrifice and turning yourself into a family-murdering demon don't necessarily add up to equal "Hunter." So we can forgive Andrys for this particular slip. And the family may never have told anyone (I can't remember whether he says anything on that subject) because if you were being haunted by the murderous demonic ghost of your family patriarch, would you risk the consequences? And Andrys admits his relatives thought it was just a legend (assuming, I guess, that they just have bad luck with random mass murderers breaking into their ancestral home?). So it's quite possible it has never come up for anyone outside the family to make the connection.

Now, here's where it gets questionable. the armor that Narilka makes for Andrys is modeled off a likeness of Tarrant in the old family chapel. (Which he designed. Arrogant much, Gerald?) I think it was a stained-glass window? But I'm too lazy to check just now. Exactly how photo-realistic this likeness was (old styles of stained glass aren't known for hyper-detailed faces), we don't know, but apparently good enough to model a highly ornate suit of plate mail off it! If I recall correctly, we're asked to suspend disbelief with a comment Andrys makes about how they don't use that chapel much anymore.

But okay. Let's figure there's one image of Gerald Tarrant left out there. Let's figure that the Church knows the Prophet and the Neocount are the same person. Let's figure they thus are aware that the Prophet's surname was Tarrant. Let's figure that Gerald had some balls to go around using his real name...but what're the chances he'd run into someone who'd even remember his real name, much less assume that the guy who happens to have the same name 800 years later is the same person? Much less that it would be a person who has actually seen that image of him, seeing as he keeps tabs on his descendants and avoids priests.

So Damien's the first one to figure it out. The Patriarch knows by the third book because Damien told him. I would not assume he published those papers, since he thinks Damien's antics would be a threat to the Church if they ever got out.

But that leaves us with how Andrys knows that Tarrant = Hunter. I can't remember: did it come up? Did Calesta tell him? Or Tarrant, after Andrys came home to find the slaughter? If Andrys just knew, then that's a plot hole, because if Andrys was smart enough to figure out from the scraps of info he possessed, then I have to question why nobody else put it together before he did.

[alice_montrose]

Which he designed. Arrogant much, Gerald?

He so is, bless his dark heart! *snuggles him*

But that leaves us with how Andrys knows that Tarrant = Hunter.

I suspect Calesta made sure to fill in the gaps about the Neocount being the same as Gerald Tarrant. Clearly Andrys knows once he shows up in Jaggonath.

[ladyphoenix9]

But that leaves us with how Andrys knows that Tarrant = Hunter.

I think it clicked for Andrys when he saw Tarrant's face in the (perfectly dramatic) moonlight and he recognized that it was the illustrious family founder coming to pay a visit, and that he was spared death because he most resembled Tarrant. I think. (Why do I never have my books handy when I visit?) I'd imagine Tarrant's picture was there beside the "survivors" at Merentha Keep.

[alice_montrose]

just who knows what about the various identities and reincarnations of the Prophet?

I suspect the Autarchs know, and maybe some of the higher-ranking members of the Order of the Flame since Gerald founded it. But about him also being the Hunter? Damien and the Patriarch. The Matriarch too, if they have chosen to inform her (I believe Damien might have done so).

Heeee, more information about the Great War! That's always a good thing, y/y?

it's rare to see powerful beings (and heroes in general) bother to do research rather than simply go ahead and do things

Ah, but Gerald is such a book worm, and he loves doing his research. I suspect he spent a third of those five centuries in his library, compiling data and reading everything he could get his hands on. *snuggles him*

so why would [Damien] having Church money be this weird?

No idea. Maybe he thinks the Patriarch would not approve of having his funds spent in such manner? Who knows?

I like the Mother of the Iezu chapters, actually. I was always curious to see how they would eventually fit in the story, given that they were so different and... alien. It's one of the aspects of this book that did not disappoint. And there was that "in the brain of a dying sorceror" towards the end, which is just... squee!

[ladyphoenix9]

For someone who's determined to cheat death for as long as possible, Tarrant has a tendency to be willing to sacrifice himself for the cause.

Damien is a bad influence on survival instincts. ;)