Coldfire reread: Black Sun Rising - Chapter 1

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Thank you everybody for such a fantastic start on Monday!

Today it's chapter 1, where we meet a certain traveler called Damien, an adept called Ciani, and we hear rumours about a certain someone called the Hunter.


Plot summary

After dust, danger, and crossing mountain ranges where the paths go uphill both ways, Damien Kilcannon Vryce arrives in Jaggonath, on a mission from God. Or at least, on a mission from his superiors in Ganji.

After marvelling that people in Jaggonath are not nearly as afraid of the dark as everyone else he knows, his curiosity takes him to the local Fae Shoppe. In the shop, he encounters far more Worked objects than he ever thought possible, as well as a shop assistant who gets very little attention once the shop owner, certified adept and local Lore-Master enters the stage. Damien, despite his instant attraction to her, does the sensible thing and takes her out to dinner so he can get a competent introduction to this place that is so different from what he is used to. The matters first and foremost on his mind are Forest and rakh, and Ciani chooses to speak of the former.

She explains about the Forest's nature as a focal point of the dark fae, and about the creature called the Hunter, who dominates the Forest and uses it to snare his victims. She offers some insights on him - that he must be an adept, that she thinks the Hunter is a man, and that she believes him strong enough to rule the Forest rather than be ruled by it.

Damien takes Ciani home - road dust thwarts any progress beyond that - then returns to the destination of his journey: the Cathedral of Jaggonath. There he gets mistaken for someone unimportant, drops his name, and immediately is ushered in for a midnight chat with His Holiness.



Quotes

• The sensible thing to do would be to find an inn and drop off his things, get his mount under guard, and affix a few wards to his luggage . . . but when had he ever done the sensible thing, when curiosity was driving him?
  
  
• Be honest, Damien. You’ve always been attracted to things faewise, and here’s a true adept; would her looks have made much of a difference?
  
  
• Set against the dark evening sky, the building glowed as though fae-lit, and drew worshipers to it like moths to a flame. On its broad steps milled dozens - no, hundreds of worshipers, and their faith tamed the wild fae that flowed about their feet, sending it out again laden with calmness, serenity, and hope. Damien stared at it, awed and amazed, and thought, Here, in this wild place, the Dream is alive. A core of order, making civilization possible. If only it could have been managed on a broader scale . . .
  
  
• It was a focal point of the wildest fae, which in an earlier, less sophisticated age had been called evil. Now they knew better. Now they understood that the forces which swept across this planet’s surface were neither good nor evil in and of themselves, but simply responsive. To hopes and fears, wards and spells and all the patterns of a Working, dreams and nightmares and repressed desires. When tamed, it was useful. When responding to man’s darker urges, to the hungers and compulsions which he repressed in the light of day, it could be deadly. Witness the Landing, and the gruesome deaths of the first few colonists. Witness the monsters that Damien had fought in the Dividers, shards of man’s darkest imaginings given fresh life and solid bodies, laying traps for the unwary in the icy wilderness.
  Witness the Forest.
  
  
• “There’s a creature that lives within the Forest - maybe a demon, maybe a man - which has forced a dark sort of order upon the wild fae there. Legend has it that he sits at the heart of the whirlpool like a spider in its web, waiting for victims to become trapped in its power. His minions can leave the Forest and do, in a constant search for victims to feed to him.”
  “You’re talking about the Hunter.”
  
  
• In a whisper that was nine parts awe, and one part fear: "Father Vryce is a sorceror..."

Thoughts

• Damien's intro always makes me imagine the new sheriff riding along the deserted, dusty main street in a Western, just as all of Jaggonath has a touch of the Wild West. An obvious and intentional image, I'm sure, but it never fails to amuse me.
  
  
• Even with this first introduction of the fae, the rules are laid down. It responds to hopes, dreams, but also fears and nightmares - essentially, thoughts can become reality. It's quite a twisted concept of magic, and unlike how this is usually handled in fantasy. What do you think about it?
  
  
• To Damien, a Westerner, it is startling to see the differences between Jaggonath and the West. A Fae Shoppe with so many Worked items, people who stay out when they should be protecting themselves from the threats of the night, different customs... And yet he adapts almost immediately to the situation. Before, I've never noticed that his curiosity is one of the first things we learn about him. What about you?
  
  
• We see the first description of the Hunter in this chapter - the resident evil demon, or maybe a human adept who dominates the concentration of dark fae that is the Forest. To the people in the East, he is an omnipresent evil that cannot be eradicated, but very little concrete information is available. People seem to have arranged their lives around him, but they know nothing beyond speculation. Thoughts?
  
  
• What do you think about the differences between East and West? There is very little we learn about the West throughout the books (actually this chapter might be the most informative one), but the East seems very strange in some aspects to a Westerner like Damien. Here, sorcery is thriving, while it is not welcomed at all by the Church at the same time.

Like before, feel free to start your own comment threads, join others, and generally post to your heart's content. :-)

On Monday, we'll continue with chapters 2, 3 and 4 - three chapters at once, since they are very short ones. You can find the schedule here.

Comments

[straussmonster.livejournal.com]

Damien's intro always makes me imagine the new sheriff riding along the deserted, dusty main street in a Western, just as all of Jaggonath has a touch of the Wild West.

It's not just that, it's an utterly classic sword and sorcery opening, where "A mage and a swordsman ride into town and head to the nearest bar" is the setup for all kinds of adventures. When I first picked this book up, I thought it would be far more S&S than it was.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Same here - I expected a typical quest from the setup, but that lasted for about 100 pages before I started to suspect this might take a somewhat different direction. This is S&S with added depths and considerably darker.

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

One of the prominent things about Damien, even from this chapter is the way he seems to take in everything with the frank curiosity of someone who isn't afraid of much, even when he's in a place that is so different to home. Given the sheer amount of fear that the Fae generates, what with wards and spells and everything, it seems to be a rare thing, whether in east or western lands.

Then again, this is a man who will travel across the wildest and most dangerous places, so I suppose a city really shouldn't be a cause for concern.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

Maybe he simply figured out that if you're afraid, it all only gets worse?

Then again, this is a man who will travel across the wildest and most dangerous places, so I suppose a city really shouldn't be a cause for concern.

Depends on the city. ;-) Damien strikes me as something of a Crocodile Dundee style - a lot more comfortable and familiar with being on the move and out in dangerous places than in situations that would be normal to most people.

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

oooh, this is a really good point. Damien is particularly courageous - particularly impervious to fear. The Hunter points it out and admires it several times. This makes him special on this planet where fear causes all kinds of emotions that manifest into dangerous things. Maybe by the laws of this planet it makes Damien a sort of saint.

[squeakygeeky]

Be honest, Damien. You’ve always been attracted to things faewise, and here’s a true adept; would her looks have made much of a difference?

This line now has meanings it did not have the first time around.

I really liked Ciani when she was first introduced. I thought she was going to be a really interesting character and then her personality got eaten.

[squeakygeeky]

html fail :(

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

*grin* I admit to second thoughts when I included that quote. But even without that, it's still quite some foreshadowing.

It's a real pity about Ciani. Even with all that happens she's an interesting character, but with her full potential intact... she's certainly a force to be reckoned with. Can't fault Damien for his taste in women!

[fyrie.livejournal.com]

Looking back, it does make me wonder how much of Ciani's real personality was there when Damien met her, as the story unfolds.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yeah that's one of the line I always hold in thoughts as a subtext for Gerald/Damien relationship (although not necessarly in a slashy way ^^)

[trobadora]

I really like Ciani, majority-of-the-book Ciani I mean, but she's really a completely different person with (most of) her memory intact. So it's a bit of a switch and bait on the reader, isn't it? You get introduced to this great character, and then BAM!, she's gone and replaced by what at first seems like a pod version. (She's not, but right there at the beginning, it certainly seems like it in contrast.) I don't remember much of when I read the book the first time, but I do remember being annoyed by that.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

I first read these books in high school, and Ciani came as something of a pleasant culture shock after years of wading through cookie-cutter fantasy females. In fact, she was always an enigma, and I've always wished to know more about her.

Reading this again, the first thing that comes to mind is that being an Adept apparently really does make you...strange. Granted, we only have her and Tarrant to compare...maybe it's being an Adept loremaster that makes you strange? Or maybe, as Senzei indicates, that's just Ciani. But anyway, while she spends much of her time being a diminished version of herself, the few times we see her more intact she's powerful and independent, which is awesome, but also almost...aloof, like the world doesn't quite touch her the same as it does others. Which, I suppose, it doesn't. Maybe she doesn't dare let it. Maybe that's the problem Adepts have. I wish we knew.

[trobadora]

Rereading this, I was really surprised by the bit about the fae currents - I hadn't remembered that there seems to be so much less of that in the West!

Yup, still stuck on differences between East and West - I wish we knew more about Damien's homelands!

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

There had to be something to make Gerald relocate to a continent that seems considerably less civilized than where he came from!

It's like the East has all this potential, but it also turns more dangerous because it. Gold-digging mentality?

[nebulia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I heard spaghetti western music when Damien came onto the scene.

Interestingly, though, right away I was hesitant about Ciani. Like, I've occasionally had issues with the characterizations of women in fantasy novels, and I thought it was just my own bias initially. I really wanted to like her, but I thought I was being prejudiced. But right away there just seemed something...not right about her and I figured I was being ridiculous. In the end, it ended up being her desire for knowledge, I think. Which isn't to say I don't hunger for knowledge, I do, but when that hunger overcame everything--feelings, even logic...I dunno.

On the other hand, I've also always loved her character; she's beautiful but she's also very flawed and thought I don't necessarily like her, her character is fascinating. Like a car crash or something, only not as bloody or destructive.

What were everyone else's impressions of Ciani?

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

I remember being fairly uninterested in Ciani during my first read, until somewhere in the middle of the book. I had her pegged as the typical female love interest, and that Damien immediately attempted to seduce her didn't help that impression. I liked her more during re-reads, mostly because I was watching for other signs in her then and she felt more rounded.

Her hunger for knowledge actually works very well for me, on several levels. On the one hand, it's interesting to see it in action already in this chapter, and then turn into such a vital matter later on. And of course there's the mirror to Tarrant. They both are adepts, they both have this yearning to know things, and it lets them connect. I actually think they're very similar characters, only that Ciani lacks a lot of the darkness. That they are both so curious is something I like about both of them, because it gives them an aspect that is often lacking in fictional characters. They want to know, not because they need the knowledge to achieve something, but because the knowledge in its pure form is worth something to them.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

The first time I read this, Ciani shocked and thrilled me because I was so used to cardboard-cutout female characters. When Damien immediately hooked up with her, I thought, "Oh, there it goes. The romance interest rears its ugly stereotypical head," but she kept acting like an independent, capable woman, and it was awesome.

In retrospect, I detect more than a hint of the alien about her. She is never what Damien wants her to be, which is both attractive (see my derogatory stereotype comment) and offputting. In fact, she deliberately hides who she really is--not necessarily in the deceitful way, but she's definitely got a "polite society" facade, and we get a small taste of just how much that might cover up when we leave her dancing with the rakh at the end of her story arc.

She also clearly demonstrates a lack of mainstream morals, though in her own way she's highly ethical, and a willingness to throw over considerations of good and evil (which we eventually see are actually pretty damn well-founded when it comes to Tarrant) in favor of knowledge.

In all, it makes me respect her highly as a character and a woman who absolutely does not bend to irritating traditional gender roles, and also like her somewhat less as an individual because I don't think we'd see eye-to-eye in the real world. She's fantastic and I'm glad she went out when she did.

[kennahijja.livejournal.com]

I'm almost ashamed that I never thought of the classic wild west style opening in this terms - now that you point it out, it's so obvious!

Damien's curiosity was probably the first thing I noticed, and it immediately made me take to him where dozens of fantasy heroes leave me desinterested. Well, not just curiosity per se - the way he's so utterly himself, comfortable inside his own mind, and very, very open-minded about everything. He *notices* where things differ from his home, but he's curious, not judgemental.

He's also awesomely not sexist in any way, and there's this beautiful touch of self-irony in the way he woos Ciani. It's hard to explain, but here's someone who'd have every potential to ooze machismo, and he just doesn't at all. I like that. Little things - like that we get to hear Ciani is ordering for him in the inn, that sort of thing. And yeah - I really, really liked the priest without the celibate bit! ;). Not getting into the female character problem... yet. I just *love* the man to bits :).

Oh, and one other thing - like in the prologue, Friedman's gift of packing information about the world and the fae into the chapter without detracting from the flow of the story is *awesome* - like the way Ciani doles out the 'there is no cure for true night' information.

The last line also really made the connection between Damien and Gerald for me - well, in retrospect.

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

It's Damien's open-mindedness that makes him a likeable hero for me (which is a very rare thing indeed). And half the fun is seeing the limits of his character getting pushed further and further. If he weren't so willing to adapt to new situations, everything could have turned out so differently.

Interesting point on the lack of machismo and the interaction with Ciani - he's certainly open enough about what he wants of her, but he never crowds her in any way.

[trobadora]

Damien's curiosity was probably the first thing I noticed, and it immediately made me take to him where dozens of fantasy heroes leave me desinterested.

Curiosity and open-mindedness. An irresistible combination. *g*

And you're right, it's very impressive how Friedman manages to put so much exposition into this without ever sounding exposition-y.

[prettyarbitrary.livejournal.com]

Curiosity and an attraction to all things faeborn. Somehow that'd always slipped my radar before. Sounds like he's got more similarity to Tarrant than I'd realized. Also his intimation that he's attracted to Ciani less because of looks and more because of what's she's like is interesting--he's not shallow, or at least he has unusual priorities--but then, he's later attracted to the navigator (whose name I have just shamefully forgotten) because he appreciates her health and vitality. We never get a really good description of what she even looks like.

Yeah, I'm beginning to realize that Damien's got a slightly odd way of looking at the world. What he comments on and what he doesn't says a lot about him; it's just hard to notice because it's his eyes we're seeing everything through.

We never learn much about the West, where Damien's from. His reaction to Jaggonath always struck me as odd: does this mean there's much less to do with the fae in the West? But then isn't it odd that that's the branch of the Church that would give rise to sorcerers?

For that matter, if Damien is a member of an Order so old that Tarrant founded it, then why are there no members of the Order in Jaggonath? Or is it that there are, but they simply aren't sorcerers? (Did I jump to conclusions, assuming that the Order has gone hand-in-hand with sorcery for a long time? Or does Tarrant mention something to that effect later?)

His reaction to the cathedral struck me the strangest, though. He marvels at it. Is the One Church that much thinner on the ground in the West that they wouldn't have such centers of worship? Or are there simply fewer major population centers, where so many like-minded people would cluster together? In short, what is the West really like? It's the one place on Erna we don't see. Always seemed weird.

[trobadora]

You hit upon quite a few things that brought me up short as well. I didn't connect Damien's order with sorcery - if that connection is made anywhere, I forgot about it. But everything else - that the fae currents are apparently weaker in the West (Damien's reaction to the fae map); that there seem to be no, or few, big population centres (his reaction to the city); that Working is much rarer there (the fae shoppe); that people fear the night more (again, his reacion to city life); and then, his strange reaction to the cathedral, which I really can't make sense of right now.

And at the same time, when he talks to Ciani he basically indicates he has no problem with pagan faiths or human sorcery.

It just doesn't fall into a coherent picture of the West, for me. I wish we knew more about it!

[nebulia.livejournal.com]

Curiosity and an attraction to all things faeborn. Somehow that'd always slipped my radar before. Sounds like he's got more similarity to Tarrant than I'd realized.

As I was reading the summary/quotes/etc above, that was exactly what I thought. They see themselves as so different from one another, but really, they are quite similar. I didn't really realize that before--I was very much aware of their differences in ethics--but now I can see that they have very similar qualities as well.

[fragorl.livejournal.com]

Wow insightful :) Just me or do adepts tend to not be happy people?

[carmentalis.livejournal.com]

We've got a fairly small sample of them, but they seem to have their problems. :-D

But I'm sure there must be happy adepts. Somewhere.

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

I hope *someone* is still tracking these old posts. : )

Interesting discussion above. I was also intrigued that there is less Working and more fear of the fae in the west - also that Damien's Order isn't in the East much anymore. I associated it with sorcery in that it was the Prophet's order and when the Matriarch started her sorcery experiment she chose this order for it. I don't know where I got that from - I'll keep an eye out for it in my reread.

These are my notes from rereading the chapter today:

- The East and West are *very isolated from each other. Damien says "no one else was fool enough to try." Apparently once in a while someone makes the sea crossing - someone had to have brought a message to the Patriarch about Damien coming and why. But still oddly isolated. And yet the church is in both parts. How did the geography affect the old wars and unification attempts?

- I love the little bit about Damien already saying he'll do anything to avoid sea travel - even travel over the Dividers.

- interesting that they "certify" adepts. Who certifies them? For that matter who is the central authority in the East? There are apparently counts - anyone higher up? Conspicuously absent.

- I took note of Damien being attracted to things "fae-wise." Uh huh. : )

- "Too many Data-lords were killed in the early days ..." Whoa, best title ever! I want to be a Data-lord! Haha, I would totally put that on my door if I was a librarian.

- the wildest and most dangerous fae on any continent being in the Forest - somehow during the trilogy I lost track of how hugely important the Forest is as far as power goes. Maybe because the people didn't know much about the Forest or its lord, maybe because in their travels they never run into people who are in a position to say "wow, you are the lord of THE FOREST ?!?" It has just slipped into being one more evil place among many in my mind. This bit reminds me that Gerald was the ultimate, most powerful evil anywhere.

- There are a couple of references to "The Evil One." Would that be The Unnamed?

- This whole thing about Gerald dominating the the wildest, most dangerous fae - that of the forest. He really accomplished something there - brought order to it though an evil order. In his way he was continuing to push humanity's knowledge and control forward.

- I like Damien's line about staying in town "if they can tolerate me." That and Ciani's bit about him being better company than his profession would indicate made him appear very attractive and mysterious. This is very much Damien's chapter in that he's attractive and lively and playful. I don't think he's ever so playful again after this. He goes from being the rebel to a more serious, dour role of defending his faith.

- the little scene where he's asked to give up his sword at the cathedral and Damien is all "don't they know ... ?" is hot - so is the "Father Vryce is a sorceror ..."

- This Revivalist gothic style with the description of the rich furnishings and magnificent architecture is fabulous.

I love this whole chapter - a lot more than I will the reread of travel in the rakhlands. : /

[trobadora]

I hope *someone* is still tracking these old posts. : )

At least Lara and I are. :-)

How did the geography affect the old wars and unification attempts?

From what we can tell, most of the history we know about takes place on this side of the Dividers - Merentha and Jaggonath and the Forest are all here. We basically don't know a thing about the other side, and don't even know if there were settlers there from the start or if they moved in later. Very frustrating!

Who certifies them? For that matter who is the central authority in the East? There are apparently counts - anyone higher up? Conspicuously absent.

Yet another thing we don't know a thing about, yeah.

"Too many Data-lords were killed in the early days ..."

I think the bit of history about Data-lords we get here is fundamental to understanding Ciani and her values. She's loremaster through and through, even if it does take Damien a while to realise just what that means. And I don't think that is ever portrayed as negative in the book. Problematic, yes, but not bad - you can see why their ethos developed the way it did, and it does make sense in context.

There are a couple of references to "The Evil One." Would that be The Unnamed?

I believe so.

I love this whole chapter - a lot more than I will the reread of travel in the rakhlands. : /

The reread may surprise you yet. ;-) I certainly found I liked a lot of things better than I expected when I paid more attention to the small details.